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[Dariush]

Big surprise for you - things change. Meph could have changed any single fact about this game without warning. Do you really think the fact that I got the PM is sufficient for lynching?

And even if (even though I didn't) I tried to leave the house, there's a tiny little possibility of me still not being scum. Didn't consider that, did you?

[Dariush]

Actually, why do I even waste time on you.

Meph, does a guarded player receive PM even if he didn't attempt to leave the house?

[Mephansteras]

Meph, does a guarded player receive PM even if he didn't attempt to leave the house?

I have not been particularly consistent about that. For this game, a Guarded player will receive a PM regardless of whether they have a night action or not.

[Jim Groovester]

I'd just like to add, Jim, that Pandar has requested a replacement.

I know he did, but if I never strayed outside the thread to sate my curiosity about Pandarsenic and his perpetual travails with midterms, how would I know he did?

I didn't see any reason to let up on him since he never bothered to ask for a replacement here.

Unvote.

CrownOfFire is scum. You know who else is scum? Max White.

[Leafsnail]

Same answer:  I'm a Guard (aka Jailkeeper.)  I figured Kilakan would catch inspections, so I picked someone else that was on my scumlist.  I waffled between Dariush and Max, and eventually decided on Dariush.

Makes sense.

And I'm not scum because I'm a Warlock. I can talk to a dead person each night through PMs. Solifuge can confirm this, as I talked to him last night. I suppose that'd leave me as confirmed Town if Solifuge ever shows up.

Anyway, onto the game. I can confirm CrownOfFire's statement, having chatted with him last night. I can't say whether he's scum or not; the only things he wrote of were asking who my top suspects were (which I provided), and to let me know that I could confirm him as Town in the event that I came back.

Unvote.  CrownofFire, you are scum.  Quite apart from the fact that you seemed rather too sure that Solifuge would be revived (surely it would be hard to predict that anyone would want to revive a complete lurker, especially with one revival source dead?) you also seem to be way too eager to "prove" that you're town.  I refuse to believe that a townie would enter into deadchat with that mindset.  Especially since there was absolutely no need for it (surely if he did come back to life he could "confirm" you as town anyway whether you talked to him the night before or not?) unless you wanted to confirm that your plan would work in advance.

And of course you claimed a potentially extremely powerful role for no reason other than you were being very, very slightly pressured.  Again there'd be no reason to do this as town.

To clarify additionally, it's when you attack a player who is attacking another player, for the purpose of defending that second player.

I usually think it's a pretty bogus thing to claim. ("Why, my attack is nigh flawless and thus the rubes who are attacking my attack must be chainsawing on behalf of that player. It is the only possible explanation. Indeed, I could never possibly be in error myself.")

It can be scummy if it suddenly comes out of nowhere and the chainsawing player refuses to comment on the alignment of the person being attacked by the chainsawee (the idea is that you're defending but don't want to be connected to that person).

Now, firstly: we should not assume that the scum didn't act last night.  They could be a cult, there could be an arsonist style mechanic.  So we should not, say, no lynch on any future day.

Why are you stating the obvious? It sounds like you know the exact flavour of scum.

It may seem "obvious", but I saw a recent mafia game (roguelike 2) sleepwalk into oblivion, and I don't want it to happen here.

And even if (even though I didn't) I tried to leave the house, there's a tiny little possibility of me still not being scum. Didn't consider that, did you?

Dariush, this is very scummy.  You've claimed not to have left your house.  If you did in fact try to leave your house, then you are lying and scum.  It's almost as if you're worried the flavour might have told Toaster that you attempted to leave your house.

[Solifuge]

Groovestar, you met force with appropriate force. You even managed to dial back the usual spite! I'm so proud of you.

However, I'm not sure CrownOfFire wanting me to consider him town is worth a lynch. If we suspect that the whole Warlock-Chat and Resurrection deal was a scum plan to get Crown in with Town, why not lynch JoshuaFH (who would have been complicit, and has already spent his power) as opposed to CrownOfFire, who IS a Medium, and can still divulge all sorts of information about the Scum team, and information dead players have gathered.

It seems a bit Anti-Town. Scum will want the Medium killed as a top priority; they can't afford to keep him around, and let him figure out what killed who, so it doesn't make sense to lynch him yet.


Anyway, Dariush, you were nearly as quiet as I was Day 1. You only spoke up after we saw no kill overnight, and you were locked up in home. You falsely lashed out at Vector along with Toaster (for believing that both had claimed to guard you, which was nonsense), and though you have since backpedaled, you keep lashing out at the one person person gunning for you... for reasons I can't understand, other than you wanting to live.

There was no scumkill, and you were locked indoors. Odds are you're Scum, or we have Cult-Style Scum and no SK (or maybe there's a 3rd Party Devil brokering for souls again, rather than killing). The Lex Parsimoniae suggests that we cut the most complex assumption, and go with the simpler possibility. Your thoughts on this?

[Bdthemag]

Solifuge He may be a Medium, but that doesn't mean he's town. Why are you so quick to defend someone who may or may not be town?

Toaster Im confused, are you the kind of roleblocker who gets to talk with the person he blocks or do you just block them?

[Toaster]

Max:

Bdthemag: Replacing in for kilakan then. He didn't leave you in a good spot... You had just saved your own ass by lynching the town priest. Do you agree that kilakan made the right choice?

I missed this the first time.  Decided that BD wasn't get enough attention?  You're trying to blame him for a mislynch too.

Why not say that the first time?

I thought I did, didn't I? I just told you, it was he's mislynch and he was being defencive about it. That isn't different from what I said before.

You didn't explain yourself, though.

Did you ever get anything more than "gut feeling?"  If you want him lynched, why aren't you voting him?

Well right now he is trying way too hard to justify he's mislynch without giving any reasons why Soli looked scummy to him.

And the hammer, you know the saying, "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

So basicaly he is trying to say that because he dosn't have any night abilities, everything looked like scum and so that is why he mislynched.
Also... Oh yea.
Josh: Why are you trying so hard to justify your mislynch?

"Oops!  I forgot to vote him and got called on it!  Let's fix that."  Nice.

Gather all you like, but the fact of the matter is that if you decide to follow through with your theory, it depends on Josh being scum, and he is a preferable lynch. I don't see why any townie wouldn't play it safe.

This is (as said) scummy- you're not thinking in terms of "most likely to be scum."  You're talking about scum teams, which is still a bad idea at this point.

Generally, your arguments have been borderline nonsensical today.  What's up with that?

BD:

Max Well deciding to lynch the town priest was an ass move, but Solifuge wasn't really helping out much in the first place.

What is the point of this?  Even for answering the the question, you're pretty much just waffling.

Toaster Im confused, are you the kind of roleblocker who gets to talk with the person he blocks or do you just block them?

I block them and prevent actions on them.  The "talking" bit is just flavor in the role PM.

Do you have any picks besides Crown?


Jim:

It's okay though. I can wait to totally dismantle your argument.

I don't like this.  You've already decided his argument will be crap even before he gives it.  At this point, you have zero information to go on his alignment- everything from D1 is irrelevant for his current alignment.  Why so quick to assume?

[Jim Groovester]

However, I'm not sure CrownOfFire wanting me to consider him town is worth a lynch. If we suspect that the whole Warlock-Chat and Resurrection deal was a scum plan to get Crown in with Town, why not lynch JoshuaFH (who would have been complicit, and has already spent his power) as opposed to CrownOfFire, who IS a Medium, and can still divulge all sorts of information about the Scum team, and information dead players have gathered.

It seems a bit Anti-Town. Scum will want the Medium killed as a top priority; they can't afford to keep him around, and let him figure out what killed who, so it doesn't make sense to lynch him yet.

Why are you assuming that the only reason I want to lynch CrownOfFire is to prove my fucking goddamn theory?

There's plenty of good reasons to lynch CrownOfFire. For example:

-He made a completely empty contribution, a frequent scumtell for inexperienced scum.
-He completely overreacted from extremely slight pressure, by claiming immediately when I called him scum.
-He completely overreacted from extremely slight pressure, by saying he was avoiding his imminent mislynch even when no one was voting him.
-He's obsessed with getting called a confirmed townie, to the point of badgering the dead to vouch for him.
-He has yet to post a single suspicion or vote on anybody or even do any scumhunting at all.
-He lurked through most of Day 1 with a borrowed vote he did nothing with, and avoided answering questions.

The theory's an interesting explanation of events, but CrownOfFire is lynchable without it.

I'm not going to decide who to lynch based on role considerations, i.e., I'm not going to lynch JoshuaFH because he's useless compared to CrownOfFire. I'm going to lynch whoever I find most suspicious, and I'm not going to go along with my theory and lynch JoshuaFH until I have good reason to think he's scum otherwise.

Jim:

It's okay though. I can wait to totally dismantle your argument.

I don't like this.  You've already decided his argument will be crap even before he gives it.  At this point, you have zero information to go on his alignment- everything from D1 is irrelevant for his current alignment.  Why so quick to assume?

That's because he edited this post. It was an incomplete post that included a vote on me and one link for evidence instead of several. I got to see it before he quickly edited it.

I was ready right then and there to completely destroy his argument, but when I got to the post reply page, to my dismay, Solifuge had removed it. So instead I settled for a promise to destroy it when he finally posted it.

[Jim Groovester]

By the way, I'm going on a camping trip tonight. I'll be back sometime tomorrow afternoon. Not a tremendous absence, but an absence all the same.

[ECrownofFire]

Right then. First of all, I'm so "eager" to be confirmed town because the more confirmed town people we have, the better. I'd rather confirm myself as soon as I can, rather than waiting until I'm about to hang. By doing it early, I ensure that as little time as possible is wasted going after town (what's happening right now). I know that my role is a powerful one, so obviously it's preferable that I don't die.

While I'm at it, since my role is rather powerful (this, at least, seems to be generally agreed upon), why not just lynch me and have Solifuge revive me? He's already proven to be town, and you'll see that I'm town when I get lynched (and subsequently revived). If it's really that important to you, then I don't really give a fuck if I die for a night, except that I can't use my power for a night. That follows that if I don't get revived, it's because Solifuge turned into a Demon because of Josh, or he got RB'd by someone.

Moving on from all that bullshit. Max White, I don't really like how you're going through with all of this. Desperately going after Jim with accusations of chain-lynching, trying to go after the "least useful" town role, and just general logical problems everywhere that stinks of a scum trying to pull a mislynch on anyone they can.

[Max White]

I missed this the first time.  Decided that BD wasn't get enough attention?  You're trying to blame him for a mislynch too.

What is wrong with him getting attention? And he was also part of a mislynch, or at least kilakan was, so I can blame all I want.

You didn't explain yourself, though.

Well if you don't think I have explained myself clearly, feel free to ask for an explanation.

"Oops!  I forgot to vote him and got called on it!  Let's fix that."  Nice.

Well yea... Pretty much. Forgot to vote, you reminded me, I voted.

This is (as said) scummy- you're not thinking in terms of "most likely to be scum."  You're talking about scum teams, which is still a bad idea at this point.

Generally, your arguments have been borderline nonsensical today.  What's up with that?

Well, still trying out different tactics in each game, to see exactly for myself what works and what does not. I have noticed in other games I am all right at picking scum just from gut, but then second guess myself as soon as evidence is required. I figure take a shot at going from instinct.

Moving on from all that bullshit. Max White, I don't really like how you're going through with all of this. Desperately going after Jim with accusations of chain-lynching, trying to go after the "least useful" town role, and just general logical problems everywhere that stinks of a scum trying to pull a mislynch on anyone they can.

I'm not trying to lynch the least useful, I'm trying to lynch the guy I think is scum, who also happens to be useless, and that is a huge plus for me! Also, trying to pull a mislynch on anybody? Really? You think I'm just going after cheep targets?


So, let's have some fun.  Here is how I think the game is at the moment, so that later on when the game is over we can all laugh at just how wrong I was.
Jim: Scum. Come the end of the first day, when just by chance kilakan was up for lynching, he decided to kick into gear to save he's scum partner. He was also totally unwilling to even answer questions that make Josh look like a better lynch than Crown.
Bd: I don't envy this guy, taking over for kilakan. He is also scum. He makes a vote somewhere and Jim follows, knowing that he is good enough to not get accused for bandwagoning, and ensuring there are two votes on somebody.
Josh: Scum. Mostly because he is josh, but also because he has been pre-emptively defensive the entire game, and Jim protecting him.

Crown: Mason leader, in with Soli. He can't talk to the dead, he can just talk to Soli, who is also a mason (As I recall a past game started with two masons, one with a power role)
Soli: Mason priest, well at least was d1. He might be a demon, and he knew that if he denied Crowns story, he would be lynched right after Crown. Most likely still town though.
Toaster: Town.
Dariush: Town, also was the target on the failed n1 kill. Jim hates lurkers, and he was lurking.

[Vector]

Max White.

"Mostly because he is Josh" is completely insufficient reason to ride a vote.  He's at the bottom of your suspicion list, with the least information in general, and... you're riding a vote because he's him on D2 with plenty of data?

[Max White]

That list wasn't in order of who I think is most scummy, so no, he isn't at the bottom, Bd is. Anyway, I'm voting him for the reasons given, that is is always defensive, so much so that he starts to ready a defence before anybody even questions him, and because of how much effort Jim put into making sure that he wasn't lynched, even though he's theory put Josh as scum.

[Toaster]

Crown:

While I'm at it, since my role is rather powerful (this, at least, seems to be generally agreed upon), why not just lynch me and have Solifuge revive me? He's already proven to be town, and you'll see that I'm town when I get lynched (and subsequently revived). If it's really that important to you, then I don't really give a fuck if I die for a night, except that I can't use my power for a night. That follows that if I don't get revived, it's because Solifuge turned into a Demon because of Josh, or he got RB'd by someone.

This is self contradictory.  First you say Solifuge is "proven to be town," but then you say that he might have turned into a demon.

Your obsession with getting confirmed is also quite scummy, but I think that's been covered enough.


Max:  What makes you think Dariush was the kill target?  For one thing, I know that's not the case- nobody (besides myself) targeted Dariush.  I forgot to mention that earlier.

As far as the explanation goes, I meant you didn't provide the one you did give at first.

You're also forming scumteams with your case on Josh/Jim.  It's still too early to do so- could you convince yourself that one is scum without relying on the other?


Jokerman and LNCP:  Would love to see more out of both of you.