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[Leafsnail]

Protect and block the guy who claims he can detect lords.

Lynching me today would cause the town to lose unless you get really lucky blocking/ protecting tonight.

[Max White]

Dude, I don't need to go outside to see what is in the cards. No guard can block me, read the game rules.

[Solifuge]

Jim, you were still a Vamp Slave Dreamwalker. Enjoy being dead; you've earned it.

I got no visitors last night, Toaster included. And that seems odd to me, because I would have thought he wanted to protect the guy who could detect lords.

Protect and block the guy who claims he can detect lords.

Toaster did indeed Guard me last night. As for Leafsnail's comment, that's not true. It only blocks physical access to or from the player. If I'm not mistaken, metaphysical stuff such as divination still goes through, much like the psychics do in Paranormal.

Lynching me today would cause the town to lose unless you get really lucky blocking/ protecting tonight.

Ooooh, you're going to have to explain this one. I'm eager to hear it.

I really don't like you and MBP using extremely convenient role-flavor as your argument for why you didn't follow through with the plan. Not at all. In fact, I like it little enough that I'm going to have to ask you to share that wonderful flavor you were both given, to the best of your ability.

[Mephansteras]

Please remember that actually quoting PMs from me is forbidden. However, you may paraphrase.

[Solifuge]

I remember, hence "to the best of your ability".

[Leafsnail]

I really don't like you and MBP using extremely convenient role-flavor as your argument for why you didn't follow through with the plan. Not at all.

I did follow through with the plan.  It just turned out that the game setup prevented it from working.  I suppose I didn't consider this possible flavour barrier, but neither did you, the maker of the plan.

It's not an "argument".  It's a fact.  Believe it or don't believe it (if you don't believe it, then tell me who the real devil is and why he hasn't taken the golden opportunity to counterclaim and destroy me).

In fact, I like it little enough that I'm going to have to ask you to share that wonderful flavor you were both given, to the best of your ability.

Ok.

MBP was glowing slightly and seemed to be expecting me.  His eyes glowed bright gold.  He told me in no uncertain terms that he could tell I was a devil and that he would never accept a deal.  He then told me rather firmly to leave, and I ran away back home in blind panic terror after a bright flash of light.

[ECrownofFire]

Okay... so we have 3 conversions dead, and therefore 3 are still alive. I think I have this down. I didn't talk to anyone last night, by the way.

Toaster is the vampire lord. Solifuge is a convert. Jim was converted N1, due to him being an experienced player. Solifuge sometime after that. Dariush was the beginning slave, and therefore not particularly useful, so Toaster bussed him early to gain the town's trust as an RB. Jim had actual claims, it's just that he was a vampire, so of course he's not going to share them. Solifuge, of course, is waiting for the right moment to revive a cult member, revealing that he's cult, but still tying up the lynch for a day, and possibly earning a majority. However, if we lynch the leader now, we still know exactly whom to go after (minus that other mystery vampire).

[IronyOwl]

I really don't like you and MBP using extremely convenient role-flavor as your argument for why you didn't follow through with the plan. Not at all. In fact, I like it little enough that I'm going to have to ask you to share that wonderful flavor you were both given, to the best of your ability.

What's this reversal from yesterday, when it was extremely unlikely that Leaf wasn't a Devil?

MBP was glowing slightly and seemed to be expecting me.  His eyes glowed bright gold.  He told me in no uncertain terms that he could tell I was a devil and that he would never accept a deal.  He then told me rather firmly to leave, and I ran away back home in blind panic terror after a bright flash of light.

So you're saying he's a literal angel?


MBP, why haven't you given me that flavor claim for your actual role that I keep asking for?

Toaster is the vampire lord. Solifuge is a convert. Jim was converted N1, due to him being an experienced player. Solifuge sometime after that. Dariush was the beginning slave, and therefore not particularly useful, so Toaster bussed him early to gain the town's trust as an RB. Jim had actual claims, it's just that he was a vampire, so of course he's not going to share them. Solifuge, of course, is waiting for the right moment to revive a cult member, revealing that he's cult, but still tying up the lynch for a day, and possibly earning a majority. However, if we lynch the leader now, we still know exactly whom to go after (minus that other mystery vampire).

Solifuge had to have been converted N2, since he didn't object to (nor confirm, I think) Toaster's claim to have blocked him that night, given the following day.

What makes you say Jim was converted N1? What makes you say Solifuge is keeping his rez as a backup option and not because he thinks he really is impious?


Despite all this, my vote goes to Toaster. As I mentioned earlier, Solifuge almost seemed to be defending Toaster, acting suspiciously himself, and seemed oddly critical of Jim. Toaster himself also had an odd question that he never went back to, insinuating that a guard must exist even if he's the VL (which, if true, would clear him).

I think Solifuge bussed Jim (which I'm guessing was a surprise for both of them), and if I had to guess I'd say MBP's thwarted at least one conversion attempt on me, but that's not really important. The important thing is that we lynch Toaster and strongly reconsider getting rid of Crown and Bdthemag, since they're less likely to be conversion targets.

[ECrownofFire]

Jim could have been converted N3 I suppose. The specifics don't really matter anyway.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

For Irony, I said a bit earlier what my flavor is. From my home, i leave my body to watch over you, weave protection, use charms, etc to protect you from harm. I cant quote the flavor i got from meph, but it is consitent with leafsnail, glowing eyes, a wretched form offering me a deal, and me auto-parrying auto refusing the deal.

Also note, i only protected you yesterday, lncp never used his power to protect you from conversion, si if they tried to convert you from N1 to N3 it worked. Then again you would not say if it was the case.

[IronyOwl]

For Irony, I said a bit earlier what my flavor is. From my home, i leave my body to watch over you, weave protection, use charms, etc to protect you from harm. I cant quote the flavor i got from meph, but it is consitent with leafsnail, glowing eyes, a wretched form offering me a deal, and me auto-parrying auto refusing the deal.

I meant role PM flavor, not action flavor. Or was that your role PM?

Also note, i only protected you yesterday, lncp never used his power to protect you from conversion, si if they tried to convert you from N1 to N3 it worked. Then again you would not say if it was the case.

Ah, noted. Toaster wouldn't have had time to convert me except last night anyway, but that's worth bearing in mind.

[Solifuge]

Oh man... I'll let the Toaster vote keep going for a bit yet, before I point out a handful of critical flaws in that line of reasoning. Forgive me, but it's a great chance to get a peak at the Scum's hand.

Anyway, I'm going to present an old theory once more, now given a new light. Remember when Max scanned Leafsnail, and he came up "changer"? Remember how we figured we had the Vampire Lord red-handed? I'm pretty sure we did, and still do.

Before D4, the Vamps managed to convert a Devil (if I had to guess, MBP fits the bill well, but for now this is irrelevant). Do you recall Leaf making a big deal how the thought of an enslaved Devil was just stupid? That was his only defense... and what's worse is that we collectively accepted it as good enough. It wasn't good enough then, and what's worse is that now he's trying to rely on flavor-based claims for his defense once more, this time to wriggle his way out of what was a surefire test of his claim. With Town pressuring him and MBP into proving it, the easiest way out was to fabricate new "rules" based on something no one could refute... IE the almighty "flavor".

I'm sure the reasons for falseclaiming as the Devil are obvious, but just to be obvious; by claiming Devil, VampLord Leafsnail can stick around on the fringe appearing relatively harmless, offering us a solution to our problems (I'll spirit away all these outliers and unknowns!), while his Devil partner delays completing his 3rd deal (thereby keeping him in the game and not flipping, thus revealing the whole deal). Each night they can delay means 1 more convert... they don't need to keep abusing the Town's faith for long until they win outright.

Anyway, above all remember how Leafsnail flipped Changer. I don't know about you, but I see Devil as far more a "Survivor" role than a "Changer". The obvious answer is that he's the Vampire Lord, and it's been staring us in the face.

What's this reversal from yesterday, when it was extremely unlikely that Leaf wasn't a Devil?

In regard to waffling on the Devil Deal through D4, I was weighing the merits of trying it and having it actually happen, versus the far preferable situation where it doesn't go through; who the deal is offered to, and how they try to explain it away speaks volumes. I just wanted to be sure we used that gambit to test someone I had reason to suspect, but little way to test... it was just another form of pressure, but one with the added bonus of being a concrete test with obvious results.

As for suspecting him, when scumhunting, we observe, suspect, and lynch, and afterward go back to observing everything in a new light. With Jim not flipping Lord (and thus not having falseclaimed) the body of probable falseclaims diminished, and old information can be seen in a new light. If your votes are stuck in a rut, not adapting to new times, then what you're doing is trying to give the appearance of scumhunting, which is a horse of a different color, dancing to the beat of a different drum entirely.

I'd append this to say that I've been consistently gunning for Cultists through the whole game, and have nabbed more than a bussing's worth. Unless I absolutely adored shooting my team in the foot, me being Cult doesn't make much sense at all.

[Toaster]

I went ahead and factored in the changes from yesterday into my preceding lord list, where * indicates someone who changed.  (Obviously I deleted Jim as well.)  Listed in rough order of probability.

Solifuge:  Lynched, flipped, and ressed.
Toaster:  Guard, blocking confirmed by Dariush, Soli, and Jim.
Leafsnail:  Claimed Devil, no counterclaim.
CrownOfFire:  Claimed Warlock, talked to Solifuge.  Claimed the kill on Nuke- no counterclaim, and backed up by Leafsnail.
JoshuaFH:  Claimed priest who ressed Solifuge, no counterclaim.
Mysteriousbluepuppet:  Claimed Guardian Angel, Protector result from Max White
*Max White:  Claimed Fortune Teller.  All three claimed results fit roles prior to their claim by the target player.  Claimed Watcher on Azure.
IronyOwl:  Claimed Witch, no counterclaim.
*Bdthemag:  Knight - took a redirect N1 per Leafsnail, confirmed by BD
Azure Sepulchre:  ?

Max is quite likely to be converted at this point, so I take any inspection of his with a grain of salt- I probably should have guarded him.

As for Lord, I still say it's one of Azure or BD.


BD:  What is your theory on the Lord?


Solifuge:  Are we sure a Devil can even be converted?  I doubt Meph would tell us out here, but it's worth an ask:


Meph:  Can non-mortal (angels/devils/demons) parties be converted by a Vampire Lord?  Can they sell their souls to a devil?


Irony:  Do you realize your case on me is almost completely associative tells through Solifuge?   I didn't go back to that question because there was nothing to be done with your answer.

[Max White]

Oh clearly you should have been watching over me last night. That only dawns on you now?
I would like to point out that two out of three people that 'confirmed' you as a guard flipped scum, and you didn't even bother to try and protect the most useful role the town has?

Either
a) The scum drank the wine and didn't convert me, because they thought Toaster would protect me, or...
b) Toaster has no protect, is the scum lord, and is having he's slaves confirm him.

And because I doubt the scum would have gone this long without converting somebody who has a good chance to block their convert, the first option looks unlikely.

So, it was a pretty neat idea, but I don't buy it Toaster.

[Toaster]

Max:  And it "only dawns on you now" that you should accuse me over it?  Why not do it earlier, instead of waiting for a bandwagon to start on me that you could jump on?  You even mentioned it, but didn't make any sort of accusation.  As soon as I get votes, though, you jump right on me.