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[Armagetz]

Found this game a few days ago....wow does it have a learning curve.  Just when I think I am getting the hang of it and start to use that knowledge for a more complex result, it loses me again.

Started to use ramps rather than stairwells....and my miners get down easily enough and start mining out the next level.  But they seem to be stuck there and they eventually die of thirst from being unable to provide for themselves.

Also, apparently no other dwarves can go down there as jobs assigned that the miners can't do, just sit here.

This has happened in two games now.

Help? What am I missing?

[Lexx]

Dont designate ramps directly below another ramp or you'll destroy the one on top. It sounds like your doing that and cutting them off from the surface.

[Lancezh]

The direction of the ramp is determined by its surroundings. Thats a little hard to understand first, since you mean once you built it its gonna stay that way. Which it isnt. If you remove for instance the tile below with another ramp you cut the one on top off. Someone with better skills explain him, thx

[Jelle]

A rule of thumb with ramps: always have a wall next to your ramp, and a floor above said wall.
Check if it fullfills this criteria. Otherwise if that doesn't help I'd need to know exacltly how you have set up your mining operation.

[Sphalerite]

In order to be usable, a ramp needs to be next to at least one wall, with a floor that dwarves can walk on above that wall.  Think of a ramp as being a flat floor with a ladder.  The ladder can't be used to get to the next floor up unless you have a wall you can lean the ladder against, with a spot you can stand on top of that wall once you've climbed it.

This is climbable:

Code: [Select]

|||| ____
____/||||

This is not:

Code: [Select]

____ ||||
____/||||

(where _ is floor, / is ramp, and | is wall)

[Armagetz]

Dont designate ramps directly below another ramp or you'll destroy the one on top. It sounds like your doing that and cutting them off from the surface.

I am building a corridor with the ramps on alternating ends.

Like this:

         _________________________________
                                                             \
                                                               \
         ----------------------------------------
       /
      /                                                       

For a topdown view similar to the game:

                (W=wall, r=ramp)


         WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
                                                       rW
                                                       rW
                                                       rW     
         WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
(Next level down)
        WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
       Wr                                           rW
       Wr                                           rW
       Wr                                           rW
       WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Thinking they maybe needed more room, I modified it so that there was a space on the far end like this:

                      WWWWWWWWW
                                      r   W
                                      r   W
                                      r   W
                    WWWWWWWWWW

But that didn't solve anything.

[Sphalerite]

That scheme won't be usable.  You need to have the ramp next to a wall that has an open floor on top of it.  Your scheme has the ramp next to a wall with a wall on top of it, and a floor over an open space on the other side.

[MonkeyHead]

I strongly promote spiral ramps with a 90 degree turn each layer...

Code: [Select]


>...
>...
>...
 ^^^

 >>>
^...
^...
^...


and so on...

also: compulsory wiki link: http://df.magmawiki.com/

[puke]

I find it is easiest to make ramps by channeling from above.  each lower level, move your channel over one square.  you end up with a gradual ramp leading down multiple z-levels.  dig regular walkways on either side of the ramp to make sure each level is accessable -- it is easy to forget this and let your ramps block off access to some areas.

I think channels make ramps easy to understand.  start with a single tile hole in the ground, and the ramp gives you access to all the 8 surrounding higher tiles.  as you channel more of them away, the ramp becomes more narrowly defined until it is gone forever when there are no more adjacent tiles.

try this:  designate a 6x6 area as a c(h)annel.  once it is dug, then designate a 6x5 area beneath it as a c(h)annel.  proceed downwards designating a 6x4 area and so on, with a constantly decending ramp.

then see if you have a good feel for how ramps work when youre done.

[Armagetz]

I really like that stairwell idea, lends itself to a quadrant style artitecture not to mention exceedingly more efficient than my model (would take a dwarf forever to get back to the surface).

And I have been reading that wiki link extensively from day one

That scheme won't be usable.  You need to have the ramp next to a wall that has an open floor on top of it.  Your scheme has the ramp next to a wall with a wall on top of it, and a floor over an open space on the other side.

That maybe the problem, or maybe I was just careless in my sideview representation.

All ramps were made by the channel command from the higher level.  That would automatically handle that issue, no?

[jhxmt]

All ramps were made by the channel command from the higher level.  That would automatically handle that issue, no?

Not necessarily - have fallen foul of this one myself a few times.  I'd guess that you started out with your flat level:

Code: [Select]

-------------------------|
...then channelled your first ramp:

Code: [Select]

-----------------------  |
.......................\/     
...then dug out your next layer:

Code: [Select]

-----------------------  |
------------------------/

With apologies for the awful code diagram (I should've just used Paint), in digging out the next layer you have probably removed the 'up and out' side of the ramp, leaving just the side that leads into the dead-end above.  As I say, I've managed to do that myself a few times - usually when trying to make rooms with galleries on the level above.

Basically, as others have said, for a ramp to work it's got to take you from a floor on one z-level, forwards-and-up atop a wall next to it.  It can't take you forwards-and-up just to a floor on the level above, as it'll just go forwards instead.    Hope that makes sense!

[Armagetz]

Your description is exactly what I did.

And I think I get it now.

Certainly would explain the behavior I saw....the miners can get down fine, but when they start carving out the next level, they essentially destroy the ramp stopping others from coming down/them from going back up.

Thanks all!

[Lexx]

I agree on the advice to use a 90 degree spiral set of ramps. It works well and looks good.

[Triaxx2]

Wait to build ramps until the last stage. I leave a 3x3 pillar anywhere I want Ramps. The center always gets channeled and has a water fall. Usually with an over flow mechanism to flush the stairs if anything gets onto the ramp that shouldn't.

[MonkeyHead]

I agree on the advice to use a 90 degree spiral set of ramps. It works well and looks good.

Some aprocryphal evidence also suggests they are better for FPS as they have a smaller set of availiable paths to choose from when compared to up/down staircase clusters.