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[DJ]

Just throw him into solitary confinement for thirty years. Let him slowly go insane.

This, except for life in solitary. It's a much harsher sentence than death IMO, and they can justify it as being for his own safety since it's quite likely he'd get shived by the other prisoners. I guess they can just conveniently forget to give him access to the prison library or any other kind of distraction, it should be just him and his thoughts till he dies. Goes without saying that the cell should be completely dark and soundproof.

[Glowcat]

Long story short : to make murder a taboo. No matter the offence, you may not kill, exept in self defence. Period.
Yes that mean you turned down lover, yeah that mean you who have been fired, yeah that mean you, who have been humiliated.
No, even the state cannot take the life of a man for any reason exept self defence, and only if it is absolutely needed to save your life.

Again, there's conflation here between what murder represents and the vehicle of killing. I do not regard killing itself as a source of moral displeasure, but rather what occurs because of it. The circumstances and results are infinitely more important to me than the act.

Just throw him into solitary confinement for thirty years. Let him slowly go insane.

This, except for life in solitary. It's a much harsher sentence than death IMO, and they can justify it as being for his own safety since it's quite likely he'd get shived by the other prisoners. I guess they can just conveniently forget to give him access to the prison library or any other kind of distraction, it should be just him and his thoughts till he dies. Goes without saying that the cell should be completely dark and soundproof.

However, this sort of revenge sentiment does make me rather uneasy. Trying to cause Anders additional suffering is simply petty. I find the entire idea of keeping somebody locked away forever to wallow in their despair far less palatable than quick execution.

[Nikov]

( I don't intend to ever learn his name, I don't want to remember who he is when the discussion ends )

Yes, I think history has shown us that forgetting the mistakes our species has made in the past has prevented them from happening again in the future.

Clearly you've never learned of Herostratus.

[Africa]

Just throw him into solitary confinement for thirty years. Let him slowly go insane.

This, except for life in solitary. It's a much harsher sentence than death IMO, and they can justify it as being for his own safety since it's quite likely he'd get shived by the other prisoners. I guess they can just conveniently forget to give him access to the prison library or any other kind of distraction, it should be just him and his thoughts till he dies. Goes without saying that the cell should be completely dark and soundproof.

Actually, no, because that's torture, and the whole point of civilized societies is that we don't do that, no matter how nasty some person may be.

[zombat]

Really? Didn't realise the ground rules of civilised societies were set in stone...

[DJ]

It's because I read too much Greek myths as a child.

But now that you mention civilization, ours is kinda based on the ancient Greek one.

[Hiiri]

Really? Didn't realise the ground rules of civilised societies were set in stone...

It's pure common sense! AAAAAAAA! Which one do you call a civilized society; situation A where we go around killing and torturing each other freely or situation B where we don't? Which one makes a better society?

Use your friggin' brains.

[scriver]

It's because I read too much Greek myths as a child.

But now that you mention civilization, ours is kinda based on the ancient Greek one.

I'd say our civilization is much more based on 18th century French one. Considering much of the Greek and/or Roman "civilization" considered "civilized" would be consider barbaric and completely immoral today.

Not to mention that "civilization" in the ancient world is a myth anyway, a delusion constructed by elitist Greeks/Romans/every other of them so they can feel they're better than their "barbarian" neighbours. "Hurr hurr they don't speak Roman and have funny names they're so stupid hurr durr" like.

[/derail]

[Lysabild]

Really? Didn't realise the ground rules of civilised societies were set in stone...

It's pure common sense! AAAAAAAA! Which one do you call a civilized society; situation A where we go around killing and torturing each other freely or situation B where we don't? Which one makes a better society?

Use your friggin' brains.

History clearly shows something else. Morals and civilized behaviour is decided by those who rule the government, not by any common sense, if it was common sense, why do some people disagree and go against our societies norm? Don't tell me that "they're nuts" or "insane" because they don't share your ideals. They're only nuts or insane from your point of view because you adhere to another creed.

[Hiiri]

Really? Didn't realise the ground rules of civilised societies were set in stone...

It's pure common sense! AAAAAAAA! Which one do you call a civilized society; situation A where we go around killing and torturing each other freely or situation B where we don't? Which one makes a better society?

Use your friggin' brains.

History clearly shows something else. Morals and civilized behaviour is decided by those who rule the government, not by any common sense, if it was common sense, why do some people disagree and go against our societies norm? Don't tell me that "they're nuts" or "insane" because they don't share your ideals. They're only nuts or insane from your point of view because you adhere to another creed.

Don't try putting words in my mouth. In prison or not, some of us are uncivilized brutes and are locked up if they cannot control themselves, like ABB.

Morals and civilized behavior are not decided by the government. It's pure mathematics. Murder + murder = two murders. Murder + no murder = Murder. No murder + no murder = No murder. How we'll reach such society is a question mark, but one thing's for sure, NOT BY MURDERING AND TORTURING! There is nothing philosophical about this.

"Gee, Hiiri.. who's to say murdering is wrong?" I said there's nothing philosophical about this.

If one does not want to reach such a society and would rather get more money (by killing people that are not productive to the society).. well.. what's the difference between this person and the one locked up? In the end they're both uncivilized brutes who just think of themselves.

Edit: Oh yeah, you talked about history.. point me a prosperous country, where killing and torturing is rampant and people happy.

[Lysabild]

You'll have to define happy, killing and torture, because otherwise the list gets longer than I care to write it.


Also, comparing mathematics to morals is rather silly, people have and still do, utterly believed they did the right thing when sacrificing to the gods, both human, animal and material sacrifices.

People used to do blood vengeance, not because they liked it, thought it was awesome or any such silly, they did it because they thought it was the only right thing to do.

It's easy to sit at the bottom of society with a full belly and tell what is moral and what isn't, but your own mind holds no definite truth in such a matter.

Ask Anders if he thinks he is moral and civilized. Who are you to say he isn't? It's not about murdering right now, your are claiming monopole on civilization and it's rather silly.

To be civilized, is to act according to the ruling classes ideal. Again, look through history all the way back to the meaning of the word barbarian.

[DJ]

I'd say our civilization is much more based on 18th century French one.

OK, guillotine it is.

[Lysabild]

I'd say our civilization is much more based on 18th century French one.

OK, guillotine it is.

This made me giggle.

[zombat]

Really? Didn't realise the ground rules of civilised societies were set in stone...

It's pure common sense! AAAAAAAA! Which one do you call a civilized society; situation A where we go around killing and torturing each other freely or situation B where we don't? Which one makes a better society?

Use your friggin' brains.

Common sense my hairy arse.

Common sense would dictate that we remove those undesirable elements from society, permanently.
Common sense also dictates that we shouldn't allow the drigs and drags of the 'less civilised' nations into our society, especially those that have absolutely no intention of assimilating to our culture.


Where as we now look back at the Romans and think of them as well dress blood thirsty brutes, our decedents will probably look back at us and think of us as being quite silly for allowing repeat offenders back onto the streets to rob, rape and murder again, or for allowing large swathes of our towns and cities to be turned into third world ghettos.

[olemars]

A couple of Norwegian store chains have decided to stop selling a number of "violent games", at least temporarily. Ironic yay for the kind of knee-jerk response I was hoping we wouldn't have to see. I don't have any of the withdrawn games and don't plan on buying any of them, but this kind of decision always strikes me as idiotic.

Call of Duty: Black Ops
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
Call of Duty: World at War Platinum
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Classic
Sniper Ghost Warrior
Counter-Strike Source
World of Warcraft
Homefront

http://www.itavisen.no/874728/disse-spillene-fjernes-fra-hyllene
http://www.rogalandsavis.no/nyheter/article5684654.ece

Norwegian version only of the articles I'm afraid. No time to make any quick translation right now.