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[nenjin]

No you don't. The beliefs are political. Therefore, it's terrorism. At no point does rationality ever enters into politics; in fact, I find it hard to believe politics have any sort of rational basis at all.

There are plenty of times when rationality figures into politics. I get your sentiment, but people have political beliefs anchored in reality and rationality as much as people fly off the hinges with their political view point. If you didn't put any stock in rationality you wouldn't be voting with as much attention as you're putting in trying to debunk my view point.

Also, I thought the VA Tech shooter publicized a screed against rich people, though I'm too lazy to dig up that screed up. I know that at the time, I thought that screed could be evidence of it being a terrorist attack.

Not trying to be snide, but you wonder why I sort of hesitate to jump to the label terrorist, it's because of stuff like that. Then again, it wasn't my country and in comparison to Breivek, the VA tech shooting was sloppy and chaotic.

We've seen so much violence in the US (Loughner, McVeigh, Kazinzcky, the Ft. Hood Shooting, 9/11 dozens of mall, school and workplace shootings...) I guess I'm just to the point where the only 'terrorists' I feel I can really worry about are the organized terrorists. Because they're semi-organized so they can maybe be caught. All these others guys? They fly under the radar until they pull their thing. To label every crack pot and psychopath with an agenda makes it seem like the 5th Column is right around the corner.

[Grakelin]

Why is this even still an argument? Men like McVeigh and Breivik are termed 'lone-wolf terrorists'. Lone-wolf terrorism is a term used for what they do.

The reason I made a point of indicating this is because we avoid villifying them when we say "Oh, they are mentally ill", because we have given them validation for what they have done. After all, if their issue is that they are mentally ill, they are technically not at fault for their actions. Anybody wishing to post to disagree with this will need to head back to any one of our many 'Asperger's Syndrome' threads and check to make sure they aren't contradicting themselves. If we're going to fight so very hard to ensure white males murdering with a political agenda can't be terrorists, we'll have to at least come up with a reasoning for them other than "They have a mental disability and don't need a reason!"

[Dsarker]

Why is this even still an argument? Men like McVeigh and Breivik are termed 'lone-wolf terrorists'. Lone-wolf terrorism is a term used for what they do.

The reason I made a point of indicating this is because we avoid villifying them when we say "Oh, they are mentally ill", because we have given them validation for what they have done. After all, if their issue is that they are mentally ill, they are technically not at fault for their actions. Anybody wishing to post to disagree with this will need to head back to any one of our many 'Asperger's Syndrome' threads and check to make sure they aren't contradicting themselves. If we're going to fight so very hard to ensure white males murdering with a political agenda can't be terrorists, we'll have to at least come up with a reasoning for them other than "They have a mental disability and don't need a reason!"

He's not a lone wolf, though. Didn't you hear? He has two more cells.

[olemars]

He says there are more cells. Important distinction. I hope the international press hasn't blown this up to be confirmed information.

There's no evidence of the existence of any organization or that he managed to establish real contact with anybody. He's been ranting on some message boards, that's about it. Chances are it's his own wishful thinking.

[nenjin]

More cells would add more weight both to the fears he caused and to his viewpoints as being representative of something larger. So if he's as calculated in what he says as what he's done, that would be the best thing for him to say.

If we're going to fight so very hard to ensure white males murdering with a political agenda can't be terrorists, we'll have to at least come up with a reasoning for them other than "They have a mental disability and don't need a reason!"

I tend to believe that there are functional psychopaths. How they rationalize what they do can be anything from Mason-esqe ranting to something more lucid. Or the alternative is that we basically create terror groups out of very little when everyone with an agenda who gets violent gets labeled a terrorist.

[Leafsnail]

I tend to believe that there are functional psychopaths. How they rationalize what they do can be anything from Mason-esqe ranting to something more lucid. Or the alternative is that we basically create terror groups out of very little when everyone with an agenda who gets violent gets labeled a terrorist.

When everyone who uses violence to spread terror and promote their agenda is a terrorist?  You mean like... uh, how it is under the dictionary definition?

I don't see why some poorly defined mental illness you give to people who do bad things makes someone not a terrorist.  Incidentally, current psychiatric reports indicate that Breivik is not mentally ill.

[Nikov]

My county just sent a man to forty years for the armed robbery of a dollar store. If he's let out in half time on good behavior, he'll be juuuuust under a mass murderer's maximum sentencing in Norway. Something's fucked up with that. Can't you just put him in solitary with a pistol and one bullet for a few months and let him spare you the trouble?

[Phmcw]

My county just sent a man to forty years for the armed robbery of a dollar store. If he's let out in half time on good behavior, he'll be juuuuust under a mass murderer's maximum sentencing in Norway. Something's fucked up with that. Can't you just put him in solitary with a pistol and one bullet for a few months and let him spare you the trouble?

Yeah, there is a problem in your country. Compare criminality rate in Norway and in the US and you'll see I'm right.
A big deal of the anti immigration sentiment come from the fact that most of the criminality in Norway come from migrants, which in turn mean that Norwegian criminality law are so successful that the country is practically pacified.

[Nadaka]

My county just sent a man to forty years for the armed robbery of a dollar store. If he's let out in half time on good behavior, he'll be juuuuust under a mass murderer's maximum sentencing in Norway. Something's fucked up with that. Can't you just put him in solitary with a pistol and one bullet for a few months and let him spare you the trouble?

There is something fucked up about that. But it is mostly on your/our side.

Also note that they have and are likely to seek the option of adding 5 year extensions indefinitely to his sentence. Basically, it would be like a Charles Manson parole hearing.

[Hiiri]

My county just sent a man to forty years for the armed robbery of a dollar store. If he's let out in half time on good behavior, he'll be juuuuust under a mass murderer's maximum sentencing in Norway. Something's fucked up with that. Can't you just put him in solitary with a pistol and one bullet for a few months and let him spare you the trouble?

Yeah, you're right, something's fucked up with that. 40 years for a friggin' robbery?! And you think that's a good thing?

And like people have said, it's unlikely he'll ever go free. After 21 years it's re-evaluated whether or not he should go free or stay 5 more years (and 5 more years after that etc etc...) Besides, we've probably forgotten all about this in 21 years anyways. "Anders who?" It's that long of a time...

Edit: Too slow 

[Nikov]

Well, armed repeat offender who's really shown no sign of changing his ways in his previous convictions and releases over the last decade, but still.

[Phmcw]

Well, armed repeat offender who's really shown no sign of changing his ways in his previous convictions and releases over the last decade, but still.

If one offender doesn't change his way after being convicted there is a problem with him ; if most of them don't, there is also a problem with the people fixing capabilities of your judiciary system.

[Nadaka]

Well, armed repeat offender who's really shown no sign of changing his ways in his previous convictions and releases over the last decade, but still.

Yea, that ups the severity quite a bit, especially if he actually harmed people in the robbery.

I think it is better or society as a whole to er on the side of leniency with the option to extend for special circumstances than the other way around.

[Nikov]

Well seeing as this guy ( I don't intend to ever learn his name, I don't want to remember who he is when the discussion ends ) didn't learn the error of his ways after the first dozen people he shot I see no reason to suppose he will learn the error of his ways after a conviction. Thus, life in prison. After all, what's the need to drag him into the light every five years beyond a legal requirement? Nobody is going to be the parole board that releases him.

[Nadaka]

Well seeing as this guy ( I don't intend to ever learn his name, I don't want to remember who he is when the discussion ends ) didn't learn the error of his ways after the first dozen people he shot I see no reason to suppose he will learn the error of his ways after a conviction. Thus, life in prison. After all, what's the need to drag him into the light every five years beyond a legal requirement? Nobody is going to be the parole board that releases him.

For him? I don't see a problem with a life sentence or even death sentence.

But for a more typical criminal? A murderer even? Many of them can be reformed.

Norway has taken the evidence supported stance that with therapy and education, recidivism is the exception rather than the rule. In order to allow reformed criminals to productively contribute to society instead of draining it with costly prisons, they give shorter sentences in general. But they still have a process in place to keep the dangerous and irredeemable safely locked away.