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[Dsarker]

Well, I believe the reason people are not calling him a terrorist is that he is insane, he doesn't appear to be linked to a specific political movement, and his motives are unclear. He's written a 1500 page manifesto, which from what I've heard, contains more instructions on bomb making than any cohesive reason for his attacks. He's claimed, at various times, to think the attacks were "cruel but necessary", for some reason (I believe he said it was to keep muslims out? Can someone confirm that?), and that he was working alone (but he's also said there are two more cells out there. Which one is right? Who knows?), whereas with most terrorists (IRA, Al Qaeda, etc) there are clear and established motives. They take the credit for attacks, and usually release statements of their political motives and what-have-you, while still keeping most of their members hidden. In this case, we don't have any group taking the credit, which would lead me to believe he was working alone. Yes, that doesn't mean he isn't a terrorist, but he seems to be delusional (he thinks there are more people supporting him than there are).

[EmperorNuthulu]

Wow. This is all so messed up.

I am Catholic and my family is from Syria (95% Muslim there) and I can tell you Muslims get so much hate for no reason. My family has lived there forever and they are treated as exactly the same as anyone else, and has NEVER ever been harassed because of our religion. We have plenty of Muslim friends overseas and over here two of my best friends are Muslims (well, one is an Atheist).

But I have a question. How is this man NOT a terrorist? If this was a Muslim, even a lone-wolf, he would have been called a Terrorist no matter what. People saying he's just an insane Murderer are basically defending his actions. It doesn't matter if someone says "God told me to do this" right before he detonates a bomb, kills eight people, then goes and guns down 90 more, he is a no-good filthy extremist and will certainly find no peace in the afterlife. Condolences to any family affected.

  Exactly this, times a thousand. Seriously, I could come out Satanist,Wiccan,Anti theist, Cthulhu worshipper or pastafarian and I would get no schtick, but if I came out Muslim, oh boy would there be ridicule. Now let's look at the majority of people who have helped start these wars and religious crusades against a people who are only in the small minority committing acts of terror. White and Christian, well I'll be damned.

 They make it out that the U.S and the U.K are the good guys, but what sort of good guys attack a country under grounds of "possible weapons of mass destruction", and "Osama bin laden could be here", then occupy it, and when they finally complete their goals don't withdraw?

 Also have you noticed how the mainstream media does nothing against this? In the 60s there was protest songs, in the 70s, and at one point in the 80s a little girl wrote a letter to the Russia president. But now? Turn on your TV's, turn on the music channels, turn on the news channels, turn on your Xbox 360s/PS3s and play a modern day based FPS. I assure you, there is only one side of the story hear.

 For a country founded on religious freedom the U.S sure as hell hate anyone who's not Christian/ close enough to Christianity. And it's not just Muslims, Buddhists in Tibet suffer, yet they do nothing. not to mention the U.S supplied, armed and practically created Al-Qaeda.




 Look at this, the production of Opium in Afghanistan has actually gone up and spiralled out of control, while the taliban actually banned the crop!

http://opioids.com/afghanistan/index.html

 Is this the ways of a good country, or a country that only wants other to burn and crumble?

 EDIT: Also, before people say "But the taliban helped Al-Qaeda" The taliban offered to turn over bin laden providing he would get a trial in a neutral country, however both the U.S.A and U.K refused. I hate to invoke godwins law here, but they gave the nazis trials, who were responsible for far worse crimes.

[TonyI]

If this was a Muslim, even a lone-wolf, he would have been called a Terrorist no matter what. People saying he's just an insane Murderer are basically defending his actions.

Uh, no one is doing that. I could just as easily say people that are calling him a terrorist are validating his beliefs.

And we've already pointed out situations where Muslims are NOT automatically labeled as terrorists.

He's bad. No one's arguing that. But there's a big, big distinction between a lone wolf and other terrorism. Pointing out that distinction means we're supporting blowing people up? You're giving Glenn Beck a run for his money.

This is where the bomb part comes in. Since there was a bomb, and bombs are usually 99% classified to terrorism since you won't know who dies and is carried out it in secrecy, it doesn't matter what religion or ethnic background, he's a terrorist. Terrorism definition = "The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims" how does this not apply? It's hypocritical. double standards, and disrespectful and more supportive to call him an insane murderer, when he seems pretty sane, and does the same exact things a terrorist that identifies with Islam without saying anything about god.

[nenjin]

"The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims" how does this not apply?

You'd have to first agree that his beliefs are even rational to begin with, to call them political. What do you think about the "invasion of European countries by Muslims who use youth camps organized by white politicians to infiltrate?"

Put another way. If Manson had used bombs, would we be calling him a terrorist? Because Helter Skelter, man, it's just around the corner.

What's funny to me is you're validating him and his beliefs in an effort to attack the powers that be. Now that's what I call a fitting memorial service to the dead. You realize if you held that rationale here in the US, he'd be held as a prisoner of war right?

It's hypocritical. double standards, and disrespectful and more supportive to call him an insane murderer, when he seems pretty sane, and does the same exact things a terrorist that identifies with Islam without saying anything about god.

Is it a sign of the times that mass murder of innocents gets a bill of sanity by presumption? You want to talk about all those labels you just threw at me, I suggest you start reading what you write first. IN labeling him a terrorist you're giving him exactly what he wants: legitimacy for his platform. Do you even realize that?

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that my calling him and his motives and his methods "not sane", I'm acquitting him of what he did. I'm not. He's a sociopath who is clearly sound of mind enough to plan a mass murder. He should burn. What we shouldn't do, in the process, is make him a martyr for all the other sociopaths out there that agree with him and think this could be something bigger. Which you're playing right into.

[Hiiri]

Wow, twenty-one years maximum for killing that many people? That's a lot of time to work out a book and movie deal. Maybe he wasn't so irrational after all.

P.S. Draw and quarter the fucker you have a King what's the damned point if he can't order an execution of a convicted mass murderer!

The guy killed a lot of children. I give him five years before he gets shived, tops.

This, by the way.

If prisoners in Norway are anything like prisoners in the USA, then he's a dead man.

All three quotes here; Norway's not like the USA at all. None of the countries in that region are. What good would it do to kill him?

[nenjin]

At the very least they should give him the worst prison sentence of all; send him here to the US to do time.

[Impending Doom]

Naw, let him go free.

Right in the middle of a memorial service for his victims. With a large flashing nametag on his chest.

[Dsarker]

Naw, let him go free.

Right in the middle of a memorial service for his victims. With a large flashing nametag on his chest.

With the police quietly looking away.

[TonyI]

You'd have to first agree that his beliefs are even rational to begin with, to call them political."

How are all political views at least rational? And doesn't that make Terrorists rational? His political views is extreme anti-multiculturalism, which basically equates down to "All immigrants are bad, White supremacy, Christian Only, Racism."

What do you think about the "invasion of European countries by Muslims who use youth camps organized by white politicians to infiltrate?"

Racist and irrational.

IN labeling him a terrorist you're giving him exactly what he wants: legitimacy for his platform. Do you even realize that?

Why does it matter? Give him what he wants, I don't fucking care. Label him on what he is, a terrorist. I could give two shits if a mass-murderer wanted to be called a terrorist or murderer or martyr (for his cause).
And no, this guy sought to be a Crusader. All his latest articles refer to him as doing justice just as they did 500-800 years ago, in terms of the crusades. You remember the Crusades, don't you? Kill all Pagans and Jews and Muslims and Non-Christians. Though this guy basically was siding with Jews, he has the same punishment for others for being insane and self-conscious about penis size, death to random innocent people.

[Leafsnail]

Naw, let him go free.

Right in the middle of a memorial service for his victims. With a large flashing nametag on his chest.

I'm gonna say once again that it's not acceptable to be complicit in murder/ extra judicial executions.  If you're going to execute people you can at least give them due process.

[Dsarker]

You'd have to first agree that his beliefs are even rational to begin with, to call them political."

How are all political views at least rational? And doesn't that make Terrorists rational? His political views is extreme anti-multiculturalism, which basically equates down to "All immigrants are bad, White supremacy, Christian Only, Racism."

What do you think about the "invasion of European countries by Muslims who use youth camps organized by white politicians to infiltrate?"

Racist and irrational.

IN labeling him a terrorist you're giving him exactly what he wants: legitimacy for his platform. Do you even realize that?

Why does it matter? Give him what he wants, I don't fucking care. Label him on what he is, a terrorist. I could give two shits if a mass-murderer wanted to be called a terrorist or murderer or martyr (for his cause).
And no, this guy sought to be a Crusader. All his latest articles refer to him as doing justice just as they did 500-800 years ago, in terms of the crusades. You remember the Crusades, don't you? Kill all Pagans and Jews and Muslims and Non-Christians. Though this guy basically was siding with Jews, he has the same punishment for others for being insane and self-conscious about penis size, death to random innocent people.

Hold on there. Crusades were not for killing all the pagans and Jews. Neither was it a dedicated attempt to kill all the Muslims or the non-Christians. It was an attempt to take back land that the Pope had deemed was holy, because the Muslims were denying the Christians access as well as leading their own armies into Europe.

[nenjin]

How are all political views at least rational? And doesn't that make Terrorists rational? His political views is extreme anti-multiculturalism, which basically equates down to "All immigrants are bad, White supremacy, Christian Only, Racism."

To me, Al Qaeda's methods and goals may be atrocious, but their fundamental argument that they've been abused by western powers in the past, and are still being abused and manipulated by them today, isn't all that irrational. It's got a lot of basis in fact and reality. They oppose foreign governments on their soil, and that's a political view that's not only rational but something that has broad support.

Compare that to the guy who attacks inside their own homeland, and formulates a patently absurd conspiracy theory to justify it. Who envisions themselves as a Teutonic savior of Europe. Who chose children as his target.

I mean, exactly who is he appealing to except the hyper-racists? Either way you slice it, I think he's so far out on the fringe it's hard for ME to really point to a rational, acceptable basis for his political views.

[Servant Corps]

You'd have to first agree that his beliefs are even rational to begin with

No you don't. The beliefs are political. Therefore, it's terrorism. At no point does rationality ever enters into politics; in fact, I find it hard to believe politics have any sort of rational basis at all.

What do you think about the "invasion of European countries by Muslims who use youth camps organized by white politicians to infiltrate?"

I have not read his manifesto (though I guess I should), but from what I heard, he was not against Muslims. He want Muslims out of Europe, yes, but his main ire is against Cultural Marxists who seek to destroy Norway's culture. They seek to do so by a variety of methods, including that of letting Muslims immigrate into Norway. The Muslims weren't invading, it was the Marxists that was using Muslims as pawns. That's why this terrorist attacked symbols of the Labor Party. That's why he calls his movement "revolutionary conservative". That's why he called the EU some sort of bizarre acryonm that looks like the USSR.

I point this out because it is possible that this terrorist attack may eventually lead to anti-immigration sentiment: media attention is focused on immigration and it's likely right-wing will win the debates and people will side with more restrictions. This is not a victory for that terrorist though; it's an absolute failure of the terrorist to get his message across. In fact, it could even backfire: if people were originally angry at massive, uncontrolled, immigration, and then this immigration is then stopped, then people's anger goes away. This lets the Cultural Marxists off, allowing them freedom to continue to destroy Norway's culture without anyone even raising a finger. (EDIT: I do not believe that Cultural Marxism actually exists as the author described it, I'm just taking what I heard of his idea and trying to understand its implications.)

EDIT: Also, I thought the VA Tech shooter publicized a screed against rich people, though I'm too lazy to dig up that screed up. I know that at the time, I thought that screed could be evidence of it being a terrorist attack.

[olemars]

You can all call it what you want, here in Norway we call him a terrorist. His attacks were politically motivated, he directly targeted the functioning of the government (he blew up the prime minister's offices among other things) and he wanted to spread fear among and damage a specific political group. He might be disturbed, but he certainly seems lucid enough and what he did was his own choice and of his own free will. He planned the attacks for nine years and actively prepared for it for months.

Seems the Norway police took 90 minutes to arrive on the scene...  Not harping on the police or anything.  Just makes things more tragic :/

Not surprising considering, didn't the attack happen on an island somewhere? If it was a remote area it could have easily been that long before someone found cell phone service, managed to get a hold of someone, and police were able to get out there, etc. Also kind of scary that someone can pick a remote location like that knowing that help will be far away. Hell the guy could have killed people for 45 minutes, then slipped off into the wilderness and vanished!

This is where his plan gets terrifyingly ingenious. By setting off a bomb at the central government district he triggered all the anti-terror and emergency protocols there are. All available police, paramedics and firetrucks in a large radius flocked there to secure the area and protect vital infrastructure. The anti-terror protocols do have contingencies for follow-up attacks (which is why there was a backup delta team - norwegian SWAT - available to respond to the shooting), but it's a situation with lots of confusion and pressure.

The island has cell-phone coverage, but limited capacity. The local police got calls and messages pretty quickly after the shooting started though, but it's a rural area with a very small police force and definitely no local SWAT capability, so they had to request assistance from Oslo.

I don't think the dude wanted to escape the police at any point, when they arrived he dropped his weapons immediately. He wants an open court trial as a stage to rant from.

If prisoners in Norway are anything like prisoners in the USA, then he's a dead man.
You murder adults? Yeah, you'll definitely get into a prison gang.
You do anything bad to children? You're going to be lucky if the guards don't orchestrate your impending horrible death, much less the prisoners. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj3SMiDvjdg

There isn't really anyone expecting to reintegrate this fellow back into society so I doubt he's going to one of these prisons though. If he gets "forvaring" he might get locked up in a penitentiary psych ward.

[Acanthus117]

This whole thing sickens me.

That bastard is a subhuman degenerate and deserves to be shut in a dark hole and forgotten.