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[Rex Tyrannus]

As someone who was spoiled without consent, I'd like to make a suggestion. Create a sticky thread in this (and probably the discussion board, too) that is titled: A note on spoilers, read this first. This thread explains that the game has a feature that many players prefer to discover on their own. Discuss that the feature is related to adamantium, and that readers of this board wishing to keep the surprise intact should avoid reading threads with certain terms in the subject.

Even so, we'll still get people who write threads with actual spoiling terms in the titles, so we need to probably have mods enforce some sort of title restrictions--assuming this is a toady one policy. Which all leads to my real point...why do we care about this subject so much? No one "spoils" that goblin sieges bring trolls and flyers. No one "spoils" that mining an adjacent tile to a magma sea is potentially hazardous. Why the touchy feelings around this?

This is a forum about a [poorly documented] game. People come here because they want to learn the mechanics. I think it's expected to be spoiled on some level. As I said at the top, I was spoiled by my coworker who turned me on to DF. One of his leading points about why I should play was the HFS. He didn't think much of telling me and I didn't feel spoiled--until I came here and found out that you all use it as a means of entertainment.

My two cents.

[Vherid]

I really don't see how this stuff should even be a spoiler. I also agree with Rex a bit, HFS was a bigger driving point to how awesome this game is.

[Chaosed0]

Sorry, seems that this was my fault. Well, I guess it's not ENTIRELY my fault, since I had no idea what the hell the thing was doing sitting out in the middle of nowhere, but still, I apologize for making such a ruckus.
I think the suggestions made farther up the thread are good - be vague, but somewhat helpful. I think most new players who get to that point will understand the concept of "fun," so that's always a good term to use. I'll be honest, though, I'm on the fence whether or not it's a good idea to keep it a secret or not. On one hand, you should be as helpful as possible. On the other, one of the biggest parts of DF (I've found) is the exploration, and ruining that is no good for people.
I'm going to continue on with my tale in the other thread, and edit the pictures/other text to be spoilered, if it means that much to you guys. A mod can move it if they wish, since it's no longer a gameplay question; I'll probably edit the thread title to reflect that.

[RAKninja]

Even so, we'll still get people who write threads with actual spoiling terms in the titles, so we need to probably have mods enforce some sort of title restrictions--assuming this is a toady one policy. Which all leads to my real point...why do we care about this subject so much? No one "spoils" that goblin sieges bring trolls and flyers. No one "spoils" that mining an adjacent tile to a magma sea is potentially hazardous. Why the touchy feelings around this?

because those things are not Hidden Fun Stuff.

goblin sieges, while fun, are yearly.  hardly hidden.

working with magma, while fun, is not hidden.

to me, taking away the "Hidden" cheapens the fun.

it should for you guys as well, as you will never get a "what's this sword doing here" or "why wont the &'s stop coming out of the hole" thread from me.  we are all cheated out of my reaction to discovery.

i can appreciate that HFS and such might attract people to the game.  nothing wrong in it, everyone has different interests. 

chaosed0:

its no big deal.  the only thing i really would have done in your position would be to add "(spoilers)" to the thread subject, especially once images were being posted.

[frodo0800]

say nothing to them,this will give us a lot of : <<*threads about Clowns*>>

[Vherid]

because those things are not Hidden Fun Stuff.

goblin sieges, while fun, are yearly.  hardly hidden.

working with magma, while fun, is not hidden.

to me, taking away the "Hidden" cheapens the fun.

it should for you guys as well, as you will never get a "what's this sword doing here" or "why wont the &'s stop coming out of the hole" thread from me.  we are all cheated out of my reaction to discovery.

Well by that logic, pointing out a very minor character, while not important in story, that doesn't get recognized often is a spoiler. That's silly.

Spoilers aren't judged by how hidden they are, they're judged by how important they are to the story and if they ruin any twists and so on. Not being aware that being greedy has it's consequences is a pretty well known topic.

Also really, what dwarves don't know about admantine. What dwarves don't know about how it was used by the gods to imprison the demons. This is all as common as the bible to them, why should it be some hidden thing to the player?

Not knowing that breaking through the proper sealant of admantine would cause the finding of these demons with any proper understanding of the lore is silly too.

[RAKninja]

Well by that logic, pointing out a very minor character, while not important in story, that doesn't get recognized often is a spoiler. That's silly.

Spoilers aren't judged by how hidden they are, they're judged by how important they are to the story and if they ruin any twists and so on. Not being aware that being greedy has it's consequences is a pretty well known topic.

Also really, what dwarves don't know about admantine. What dwarves don't know about how it was used by the gods to imprison the demons. This is all as common as the bible to them, why should it be some hidden thing to the player?

Not knowing that breaking through the proper sealant of admantine would cause the finding of these demons with any proper understanding of the lore is silly too.

i do not see how you come to the conclusion that things described as "hidden" equate to minor characters in a story.  you then go on to throw this example away by describing how important adamantine is to the story.  also, isnt that "origin of adamantine" story fan conjecture?

being aware that greed has consequences is not the same as revealing big twists to the story, such as even the speculated origin of adamantine.

why call it "hidden fun stuff" if it is not to be considered a spoiler?  why not "special fun stuff"?  a synonym of "hidden" is "secret".  revealing a secret is often called a spoiler these days.

finally, you are cheating yourself (and the rest of us) out of the reactions of the uninitiated by laying everything out on the table for them.  from what i've seen in my short time here, those kinds of threads provide amusement for all involved.

[Tiruin]

Search for the thread "You have found..." it contains spoilers but at least it shows how not to spoil the special surprise inside your box of FUN-O's.

For me, HFS means HFS. It is one of the most H, F, Things out there. If they choose to talk about it in a spoilerific way, that is what the spoiler button is for (look for the radioactive picture when posting).

If not, then at least make a small story about it. I'm in progress of making my own story entitled the "sword in the stone" from a dwarf's view.

And before anyone spoils what lies beyond the veil, try remembering what was your reaction when you discovered what was not meant for mortal eyes.

There is a reason Toady wanted euphemisms for the circus.

There is a reason on why there is a metal stronger than steel.

There is a reason on why many people love DF since they can discover things by themselves. They just sometimes need a push in the right direction. Mostly the way that piques the interest of the player.

NOT by saying what it really is right off the hat.

[Makigall]

I think everyone has certain assumptions about what happens when dwarves delve too greedily and too deep.  I balk at the idea that somebody playing Dwarf Fortress has never been exposed to the Lord of the Rings in any of its forms.  And I think most people upon playing this game at some point consider building a Moria style fort.  I think the biggest thing to consider is that most players expect there to be something bad if they go too deep.  I'd say they best warning in regards to HFS is to simply tell people there are repercussions from delving too greedily and too deep.  Doesn't give anything away.  Vaguely hints to what's there.  And probably works well with a player's expectations.

Honestly though I think anyone who's playing Dwarf Fortress in a completely un-spoilered mindset doesn't see things like cotton candy tubes and upright candy canes without thinking that something bad could happen.  The game really only stops to announce things which generally contain some amount of danger.  "A vile force of Darkness has arrived" "The forgotten beast blahblah has come" "You have discovered a vast magma sea" why should "You have found Adamantine, Praise the Miners!" be any different?

I think the best advice is to warn that there are repercussions, tell them to trust their instincts, and inform them that a backup is probably a good idea and saying because of a bug is fine, because let's face it, having your FPS tank to single digits isn't enjoyable.

[Ifeno]

well give them the dwarf talk, and tell them about the circus and the clowns =)

[Sutremaine]

inform them that a backup is probably a good idea and saying because of a bug is fine, because let's face it, having your FPS tank to single digits isn't enjoyable.

There is a way around that; it was done in SA's Gemclod LP. I believe it involved uncompressing the save so that an external utility could change the building destroyer tag from its original value. But if a newbie does manage to seal off the HFS with nothing of note happening, it's probably for the best if they turn back time instead of fiddling about with the save.

[Vherid]

i do not see how you come to the conclusion that things described as "hidden" equate to minor characters in a story.  you then go on to throw this example away by describing how important adamantine is to the story.  also, isnt that "origin of adamantine" story fan conjecture?

being aware that greed has consequences is not the same as revealing big twists to the story, such as even the speculated origin of adamantine.

why call it "hidden fun stuff" if it is not to be considered a spoiler?  why not "special fun stuff"?  a synonym of "hidden" is "secret".  revealing a secret is often called a spoiler these days.

finally, you are cheating yourself (and the rest of us) out of the reactions of the uninitiated by laying everything out on the table for them.  from what i've seen in my short time here, those kinds of threads provide amusement for all involved.

It might be, but it's still common simple fluff. But I gave two possible points and that might have been too much apparently.

You're far too silly for this.

[RAKninja]

.  The game really only stops to announce things which generally contain some amount of danger.  "A vile force of Darkness has arrived" "The forgotten beast blahblah has come" "You have discovered a vast magma sea" why should "You have found Adamantine, Praise the Miners!" be any different?

also, "some migrants have arrived!"  and "a caravan has arrived!" =D

It might be, but it's still common simple fluff. But I gave two possible points and that might have been too much apparently.

You're far too silly for this.

i can disagree without demeaning you or your opinion.  is it too much to ask the same?

[Urist_McArathos]

I'm going to have to agree that more secrecy is better.  The fact is, it's great fun to watch a newbie stumble across HFS for the first time, particularly because this forum seems comprised mostly of veterans who know what's coming (or newbies that have been warned through spoilers and know from secondhand info).  I think the idea of saying "back up your save, going after big prizes can be risky/dangerous" is warning enough without spoiling the fun.

[Sutremaine]

Plus, if pushed, a slightly more specific warning that the game isn't going to let you have the sword for free. If people can vent their urge to give hints by almost-talking about the zombies, they might be less inclined to mention anything that happens afterwards. My personal policy on that is to write as though the demons don't even exist.