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[UltraValican]

another added challenge is "goblin fortress"

add the [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] tag to goblins, and embark.  i thought it was going to be just like dwarves... boy was i wrong.

Not really, I acidentaly embarked with goblins and that fort is running pretty darn well.

[stabbymcstabstab]

I done that before on the Forttress Defense mod with one of the Civs on it that was... fun

[Rumrusher]

Setting up a adventure hermit fort which has all the Fun of adventure mode combine with the isolation of Hermit.
Difficulty on survival is already hard given I'm playing a character who would self destruct if she use a material breathe attack so I have it so all companions, migrants are Friendly bodyguards.
so far I this is on the fortress defense mod so I don't know how long this will last.

[LilGunmanX]

I don't typically set any limitations for myself, as I am of the opinion that we should play the game as it was intended to be played, with no exceptions. House rules are limitations which exist to add fun to a game which shouldn't need any extra rules to be fun. The only thing which I don't like doing is creating "danger rooms," my reason being because some people are of the opinion that the quick skill-leveling they offer at little to no cost counts as an exploit. While I am not of this opinion myself (after all, why create training weapons if they serve no real purpose in combat, and regular training takes such an impossibly long time,) I do not want anybody questioning the greatness of my fortresses if I put in the time and effort to make them great. The honor of my dwarves, at least, shall remain unquestioned... they deserve that much, don't they?

Moreover, the use of these dedicated rooms ironically removes much of the danger from a fort, wherein lies the fun of playing Dwarf Fortress... so I have deemed them only acceptable to use in what I would call a "scientific fortress," and even then only in sparse amounts. If Toady decides to clear up the controversy surrounding the use of danger rooms and announces once and for all that he does not intend to remove or place limitations on them, then I will be all for them. But I doubt he will ever do either (remove them or confirm them,) as danger rooms have become so popular that removing them would probably cause the less-capable part of the player base to quit playing entirely out of frustration, and confirming danger rooms as the intended use of training weapons might make the more experienced players who scoff at them unhappy.

[franti]

Try the cave challenge.

[Indricotherium]

another added challenge is "goblin fortress"

add the [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] tag to goblins, and embark.  i thought it was going to be just like dwarves... boy was i wrong.

I'd love to hear more about the differences you encountered.

[Tharwen]

A challenge I like is "no digging". Exactly what it says. Everything is made from wood on the surface. No stone allowed on embark either, no metal, no forges. Live like a rancher. Imported armour/weapons optionally permitted. Your created value is usually so pathetic that you get no immigrants between the first two caravans.

You also lose everything whenever your strangely-mooded, steel axe-equipped woodcutter demands cut gems for the artifact cat-bone table he's trying to build.

[Greiger]

Lesse,
*limited use of traps, no deeper than 2 tiles deep, never more than one serrated disc per trap.  Many spikes in a single upright spike trap is fine, as long as they stay unlinked and rely on gravity for damage

*Dodge me traps are ok, but it can't be a single tile wide thing.  3 tiles wide minimum, so that they can still dodge to safety without jumping off the majority of the time.

*No survivor megatraps are a no-no.  If a creature falls into a megatrap they must have a chance to escape death.  Larger traps capable of trapping many creatures, must also require longer than a season to reset. (This self imposed rule basically just has me not make megatraps, too hard to make them meet my requirements)

*Never fully seal the fortress to ground forces.  Ground forces must be able to path into the fortress in some reasonable way.

*Cage traps for wildlife capture only.  If a goblin falls into a cage trap by coincidence that's fine, but cage traps will be placed randomly in the wilderness, not in a place goblins must path through to aid in defense.  I generally don't want caged goblins anyway.

*Goblin garbage is to be dumped and atom smashed(or otherwise destroyed) or melted down.  None of it is to be sold or used in it's origonal form.

*No danger rooms.

*No stealing from traders, not even elves.  It is already too easy to buy out them all with plant cloth crafts, no need to outright steal.

*No noble "accidents".  Mandates, room requirements, and demands are to be met if possible.  A jail is to be built with water access and access to food in each cell.

*Atom smashers are ok for purposes of garbage disposal.  They are under no circumstances to be used in defense.

*And a more recent rule, no adamantine.

[Kon]

I don't use traps.
I use drawbridges, but never forbid doors.
I don't use danger rooms.

The main way of making the game more interesting and adding more of a challenge is to use a mod like Civ Forge or Genesis. Or make your own mod.

[Organum]

My only industry is the industry of butchery - butchery of trees, of animals, of invaders. The only exports are bone, leather and meat roasts. The only imports are tools of slaughter.

Who, then, is higher in Armok's eyes? He who spills rivers of blood (and sap) in order to survive and prosper, he who deals in all things visceral and gory, or he who hides in a cave, chipping away at limp, lifeless stone?

You've got to remember that those in their underground homes are doing a lot of murder, too. Drowning/melting traps, torture of prisoners, just plain butchery for food. And a Dwarf is not truly a Dwarf if he shuns stone. You may be shedding blood and sap, but you're still more Elf than Dwarf.

[Urist_McArathos]

I personally have no issue completely sealing my fortress off from the outside world (since that's what many places under siege did in times of old), but since I often play from an RP perspective, I can't just ignore the army forever and toss merchants or migrants to the wolves.  My dwarves would never simply turn their backs on their fellow dwarves or stout human allies and let them be torn to pieces.  Elves...elves are usually on their own.

In the event a caravan or migrant wave appears during a siege when I'm under lockdown, the gates are lowered and the army tries to break the siege rather than abandon the unfortunates to their fate.  This little side rule keeps it interesting; I know that my drawbridge is only a temporary defense at best.

"What about dead worlds where you don't get migrants or caravans?" you ask?  Well, I -could- stay locked up forever just fine.  I mean, if YOU were leading a tiny band of 20 survivors riding out the apocalypse, you'd probably hole yourself up somewhere secure and lock out the zombies or whatever as well.

[RAKninja]

another added challenge is "goblin fortress"

add the [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] tag to goblins, and embark.  i thought it was going to be just like dwarves... boy was i wrong.

I'd love to hear more about the differences you encountered.

no nobles.  as in, no expidition leader, no assignable positions for bookkeeper or manager.  no chief medical goblin.  no ability to assign these positions.

no booze and no underground seeds.  no aboveground seeds for that matter.

with "embark now" i started with two copper picks and two copper axes, three barrels of meat, a crossbow and two quivers, and not much else.  no animals (i know this goblin civ has animals from fighting them in adventure and fortress mode)

despite starting with a jeweller goblin, no jewellery labours show on the labour list ( v->p->l)

there is no ability to make pots.  must use barrels.  i havent discovered much else, i played to first immigration wave and saved.  i'll play some more of it later, and post more differences when i find them.

[UltraValican]

another added challenge is "goblin fortress"

add the [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] tag to goblins, and embark.  i thought it was going to be just like dwarves... boy was i wrong.

I'd love to hear more about the differences you encountered.

no nobles.  as in, no expidition leader, no assignable positions for bookkeeper or manager.  no chief medical goblin.  no ability to assign these positions.

no booze and no underground seeds.  no aboveground seeds for that matter.

with "embark now" i started with two copper picks and two copper axes, three barrels of meat, a crossbow and two quivers, and not much else.  no animals (i know this goblin civ has animals from fighting them in adventure and fortress mode)

despite starting with a jeweller goblin, no jewellery labours show on the labour list ( v->p->l)

there is no ability to make pots.  must use barrels.  i havent discovered much else, i played to first immigration wave and saved.  i'll play some more of it later, and post more differences when i find them.

Thats strange my goblins can do everything a dwarf can do....

[Clamatius]

Lots of interesting ideas here. As I mentioned, personally I'm looking for hard-and-fast rules rather than aesthetic guidelines. That said, a tip of the hat to dennislp3's human ruleset. Honestly, I don't know how you would survive with that setup if you are anywhere remotely dangerous. It takes quite a while to get a decent size exterior palisade finished.

The farming stuff is interesting too. I suspect the best way of "fixing" the farming issue I talked about initially is a slight mod to make underground crops and eggs much less nutritious, so the dwarves can use them as supplements but it's too labour-intensive to rely on a couple of plump helmet plots. I agree that eggs seem too good right now. I don't tend to use them just because the combat alerts of animals fighting and FPS loss is too annoying.  I'll probably come back to food later on and focus on the militarized side first.

Requiring pathing into the dining hall seems better than the door restriction or drawbridge restriction I initially suggested. For example, that change lets you use drawbridges as "shutters" on archery towers to work around their reloading issues.

I'm going to try this on a relatively peaceful area:

• No cage traps
• No weapon traps
• No linked spikes
• No atom-crushing defenses or (intentional) goblin-flinging defenses
• Ground enemies must be able to path into the main dining area without going within 20z of the magma sea
• No volcano on embark
• No aquifer on embark
• No river or ocean on embark

That gets round the lack of sapping or mining from sieges and the flying enemies relying on ground paths. Cage traps and weapon traps are just too easy to set up and too effective (IIRC Toady has actually talked about that being a future fix at some point). No linked spikes means no danger rooms and no spike corridors. After that ruleset, the main defense left is military. Secondarily, large scale traps (which always seem sufficiently dwarfy), although they should be challenging to set up with the embark restrictions. A drowning trap can be set up in the early game if you have infinite water, which seems too easy.

[RAKninja]

Thats strange my goblins can do everything a dwarf can do....

did you change anything else about the goblin entry aside from adding the controllable tag?  any mods?

perhaps it's just this goblin civ itself that lacks these things.

i wonder how i'd go about modding goblins to start with a typical goblin leader unit...  or how to handle a "monarch" represented by the "&" symbol...