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[franti]

These are the rules of the Cave Challenge as they were explained to me. Many of you may have tried this on your own, but perhaps with different "rules". The goal is simple, survive in the caverns, and only in the caverns:

One - The fortress must be set up in the cave or the immediate walls of the cave. As much of the fortress as possible should be in the actual cave.
Two - Immediately upon embarking, you must head for the caves.
Three - No resources the surface may be used in any way. No water, wood, animals, or plants.
Four - No embark items from the surface may be taken: Fungiwood instead of Maple, Giant Mole Dog meat instead of Mountain Goat meat, etc.
Five - All 3 caverns may be used, but not the magma sea.
Six - Stone that is in no way near the caves may not be used.
Seven - No trading with the surface is allowed at all: the cave must be completely self sufficient. But migrants are allowed in.
Eight - The caves may be "tamed" only as is nessecary: you must preserve the natural asthetics of the cave. If you were on the surface and a sissy, you'd know how elves feel: except instead of not cutting down trees, you're going to be not building giant death traps everywhere to kill everything.

The dificulty (and therefore, fun) of this challege is setting up in a hostile enviornment without caravan support, and possibly without water/magma. If you find a magma tube in a cavern, you are very, very lucky. If not, well, you don't NEED metal.

If you try it, post the results.


Here are my experiences, should you care:

I'm on my thrid attempt at this: The first atempt was ended nearly immediately by an Ant Man Civ: three shields and a spear? Can I hire these guys as mercs?
The sceond was very well set up, but a Giant Cave Crocodile got in and killed everything.
My thrid is doing well: I bypassed the 1st cavern layer, and I'm in the 2nd. It has water AND magma!

Here are some tips:
- The caverns are usually metamorphic, which means that both sedimentary Coal and ingeous Obsidian will be dificult to find. Your best bet for an army is Bone & Leather aroured Marksdwarves.
- If you want trees for fuel, breach the 3rd cavern: it has the most variety.
- If you do get fuel, metal won't be hard to find: Lots of Hematite, Native Gold, and Garnierite will likely be running through the cavern.
- Nearly everything in the cavern will try to kill you, so you'll be wanting a good military set-up, and good doctors. I recomend bringing Obsidian for Swordsdwarves in case you don't find any.
- Wall up the stairway leading to the surface to keep out ambushers. You won't have to worry about Goblins at all. This is the only instance that "avoid the surface" makes your game easier.
- Forgotten Beasts can be killers, so make sure you have a "backup plan": perhaps a second, smaller outpost on another cavern level.
- Migrants can be repurposed as Engravers, Farmers, or Croc Fodder Hunters so you can save embark points for useful tasks.
- Bring extra picks in case you can't forge any.

Here's what I embarked with:
2 Adequate Doctors (Adequate Diagnosing, Surgery, Wound Treatment, etc.)
2 Competent Miners
3 Swordsdwarves (Competent Sword, Novice Fighter, Novice Shield User)

Here's the template for my two non-metalic military squad templates (all of this is worn over Cave Spider Silk clothing, except the boots):

Fortress Guard:
Obsidian Sword
Black-Cap Shield
Elk-Bird Bone Helm, Gauntlets, Greaves, and Leggings
Elk-Bird Leather Shirt, Vest, Boots, Cloak, and Hood

Cavern Ranger:
Black-Cap Crossbow
Black-Cap Buckler
Elk-Bird Bone Bolts
Elk-Bird Leather Quiver
Elk-Bird Leather Leggings, Shirt, Cloak, Boots, Gloves, and Hood

Now, of course, I simply put "Elk-Bird" and "Black-Cap" because they're my favorite. It doesn't matter.
Because Iron/Steel is hard to get, having quality weapon/armor makes is important.

And, as always, remember: losing is fun!

[Agent_Irons]

I'm interested to see how this works, actually. Let us know how things go?

[accoro]

Very interesting. Been looking for something fun to do! I already have it planning out in my head.

Are we welcome to post our experiences here or...?

[thegoatgod_pan]

I'm in, starting now...will post outcome

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hint: Watch out for giant cave spiders. They can start near-fatal tantrum spirals as deadly to a fort as it's venom is to the individual dwarves. To kill it, swarms seem to work best, but leave out your important dwarves.

[nogoodnames]

In my latest fort I've been doing something similar, only it is set on a frozen volcano in a world with extreme temperatures so everything I embarked with which was not made of metal was instantly frozen or destroyed and any animal outside will quickly freeze to death. I chose the 'play now' option as well, so I had dwarves and equipment completely unsuited to the environment. It's been pretty fun so far, my starting seven are living a life of luxury in the caverns where all the furniture is made of gold and everyone is ecstatic, while closer to the surface a small migrant fort is slowly dying of starvation because it is taking too long for a patch of mud to sprout a few shrubs.

Even when I was first getting a grasp on the game I was able to establish a fairly successful fortress in the caverns. Of course, neither of those have experienced a forgotten beast attack yet.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Why were the migrants not in the caves? And how did your dwarves not become dorfsicles while they mined into the caverns?

[franti]

I'm interested to see how this works, actually. Let us know how things go.

Alright. Dug down to the 2nd cavern level, started building out stockpiles, setting up a hospital, and a well.
The fortess exists in a ~30 wide hunk of cave dividing the lake and volcano, with the prime farmland on the far northern side. I brought a lot of food, though, so that isn't a problem.
My fortress is divided into 3 levels:
Level one is where the volcano is and where my military trains/lives. I channeled some magma inside so I don't have to have vital operations in the open where the Giant Bats can get them. Nickel is the only metal avaliable right now, but it's good training for furnace operators and I can make furniture out of it.
Level two, where the stockpiles and workshops are, is fully functioning. My hospital is set up with a well, and another well is set up in my dining area in case something happens to either of them.
Level three is where the dwarves will live. It's not been mined out yet.

Some more advice:
- Bring a variety of seeds: you can't trade for them.
- Bring a few Copper bars in case a dwarf gets a mood.
- Put every dwarf that isn't aready in the military/carrying a weapon in a squad. This will allow the dwaves to defend themselves if attacked. Obsidian Shortsword works fine. Wooden Bucklers can be used, too, if you're in a seriously precarious spot.
- Dwarves won't mind sleeping in dirt and getting attacked as long as the dining room is awesome, so lot's of Smooth Obsidian Block floors and Engravings.
- Have your military training around the clock until it starts to piss them off: they'll need the skill: whether armoured/armed in bone and wood or steel, the caverns eat weak dwarves like my Carpenter eats Kittens.
- Having a herd of animals to act as Leather/Bone/Food sources is even more vital than normal. Pen them in and gaurd them well.

As for creatures like spiders, yeah, they're a problem. Some animals, like Giant Olms, are so far beyond the capabilities of an early-level military that every passage should have cage traps incase it gets in. And that brings me to this: how do you set up a cage trap?

Are we welcome to post our experiences here or...?

Yes. Bump the tread whenever possible.

[Lexx]

For added FUN! change world gen to increase size and amount of caves. This makes for many more Forgotten Beasts to beat up as they survive a lot longer.

[UristMcHuman]

Elk-Bird Bone Bolts

Making things from bone is currently bugged, I hear. The ONE thing you want takes up a WHOLE DAMN STACK of anywhere from a meager 3-7 bones or a valuable 150+ bones. I suggest wood bolts instead.

[nogoodnames]

Why were the migrants not in the caves? And how did your dwarves not become dorfsicles while they mined into the caverns?

In dwarf fortress, much like in real life, subterranean areas have a more moderate, fixed temperature. I don't know how advanced this mechanic is, but it managed to protect the initial settlers, and even saved the migrants after they stole some picks from the caravan, despite some having frostbite on their skulls, ribs and teeth (bones seem to be damaged by cold before other tissues for some reason).

The migrants were not in the caves because the original seven dwarves walled up the entrance, and because I like the idea of a small group of dwarves living in ignorant bliss while the migrants who came after them are forced to eke out a living on the unforgiving surface (I am a bit of a fan of Rockfalls). Also, migrants just end up ruining everything, and a small fortress fighting for life against all odds is a lot more fun than a huge, near indestructible fortress in my opinion. I guess that's why I can never seem to commit to a single fort.

[franti]

Elk-Bird Bone Bolts

Making things from bone is currently bugged, I hear. The ONE thing you want takes up a WHOLE DAMN STACK of anywhere from a meager 3-7 bones or a valuable 150+ bones. I suggest wood bolts instead.

Older Version: 1 bone = 2 gauntlets or 5 bolts. It think it takes ~10 to make greaves, though.

[Sutremaine]

Making things from bone is currently bugged, I hear. The ONE thing you want takes up a WHOLE DAMN STACK of anywhere from a meager 3-7 bones or a valuable 150+ bones. I suggest wood bolts instead.

It's buggy, but not that way. Each individual unit will be carved into a stack of five bolts. Greaves take three individual bones, each of which has to come from a separate stack. One bone gives two gauntlets, and off the top of my head everything else is one bone to one item.
The bug is that any animal item takes as much space in a workshop as the animal corpse itself. So a single elk bird bone will clutter a workshop more than ten sheep bones.

[franti]

Making things from bone is currently bugged, I hear. The ONE thing you want takes up a WHOLE DAMN STACK of anywhere from a meager 3-7 bones or a valuable 150+ bones. I suggest wood bolts instead.

It's buggy, but not that way. Each individual unit will be carved into a stack of five bolts. Greaves take three individual bones, each of which has to come from a separate stack. One bone gives two gauntlets, and off the top of my head everything else is one bone to one item.
The bug is that any animal item takes as much space in a workshop as the animal corpse itself. So a single elk bird bone will clutter a workshop more than ten sheep bones.

I have noticed that with the butchery, but I don't really care: I'm not sure what clutter does.

[Mister Dirks]

Elk-Bird Bone Bolts

Making things from bone is currently bugged, I hear. The ONE thing you want takes up a WHOLE DAMN STACK of anywhere from a meager 3-7 bones or a valuable 150+ bones. I suggest wood bolts instead.

I think your thinking of adventure mode crafting?