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22 (21%)

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33 (31.4%)

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33 (31.4%)

Total Members Voted: 105

[Kay12]

Um, multi-level designation is just that - you can already do that, but this'll reduce the amount of keypresses needed dramatically.

You can't do anything multi-level at the moment except for burrows. Let's say that you want the following design repeated over ten levels for your workshop area:

Code: [Select]

###########
#...#.....#
#.........#
#...#.....#
#####....X#
#...#....X#
#........X#
#...#....X#
#####....X#
#...#.....#
#.........#
#...#.....#
###########

Right now you'd have to either do each level by itself, or each ten-level tile column by itself. There's no way to designate the whole 3D space for mining and then nip out the walls. The stairs in particular would benefit from true multi-tile designation.

It's the difference between placing constructions one tile at a time and placing them using the umhk system, though to a lesser degree. I started playing after the construction menu was expanded, but I imagine it was a big thing at the time.

No, you could designate them exactly the same way, the UI improvement just makes it easier and faster but in no way is that impossible in the current version - just do it separately for each level. It's reducing tedium, but not really affecting gameplay. And it's fine that way.

[Sutremaine]

I think we're talking past each other here.

[Fedor]

I could fall in love with this game, screw the learning curve, but the interface seems like would remain highly difficult.  I don't want to have to fight the interface even after I've learned the game.

Personally, I think he's a being a whiny pansy about it, ...

The interface is the most important problem with the game, IMHO.  You just can't get where Toady's been wanting to go post-2D without throwing out the 25x80, extended-ASCII, obsolescent-in-the-80s interface.  Despite the recent tweak to selection, just one of a host of improvements, the game's interface is a far more important hindrance to my enjoying this game and appreciating what it makes possible than it was four years ago.

[Girlinhat]

The point is, "It's possible, but prohibitively difficult and tedious."  With multi-level designations, digging out apartment complexes will be dramatically easier.

[Nidokoenig]

Personally, when I do big designating across z-levels, it's almost always Quickfort-aided, using paired plans because I never use up/down staircases, always alternating up and down ones to protect against falling accidents. I'm sure I'd get some use out of this, but it's not a game-changer for me.

[Excedion]

Well to be quite honest the one that was announced was the only one i really had a major bother with, cause its a pain in the ass designating 180 odd levels of stairs one by one just to get magma, never mind bring it back up

[Urist_McArathos]

I personally think that minor changes like this are a welcome thing, especially if it's something small that has a huge impact on the game in a positive way like this.

I love digging out central staircases, waterways for utilizing brooks and such, pump stacks, and massive ramp systems.  I actually JUST NOW had to abandon a fortress and regen the world after taking nearly an hour to designate a twin-ramp spiral that stretched to the magma sea, screwed it up, and messed the whole system to hell.  Rather than bother again, I'm going to bed because I can't stand the idea of doing it all over again level by level.  A minor change like this will dramatically impact fortress planning, and I'm all for it.

Having said that, I do -NOT- want updates like this taking priority over content.  PERIOD.  I love the new stuff Toady is always adding, and I'll suffer through buggy macros and figuring out third-party utilities if it means I get more new toys in exchange.  I'm assuming Toady added this after realizing it would be a welcome addition and it wouldn't be too hard to implement.  Great news, but it's clear so far that the next update will not be a major UI/navigation package, and I'm fine with that.  As others have said, the UI can be polished up and ideas implemented AFTER the game is more or less done.

TL:DR I like this update, but I will take moar content over easier gameplay any day.

[Alastar]

I seem to be in a minority here.

I don't really want a modern interface. I want one that fits right into CP437 gameplay rendition, and modern interfaces tend to be ponderous things: designed to be inviting to new users and gladly sacrificing power/efficiency for that.

I don't want a needlessly obtuse one either, at the moment some common tasks can't be performed efficiently and the interface isn't very consistent. Even if we just want to feel smugly superior to casual players, an uncompromising interface that's actually good once you know your way around it (like most famously user-unfriendly ones) would fit our needs better.

Incidentally, I also think gameplay is more important than the interface at the moment.

[Kay12]

What do you mean by "modern interface"? One that doesn't require trial-and-error and Wiki browsing to learn? One that would be intuitive so one didn't have to stop playing every two minutes to check how to do something?

[MiniMacker]

If you mean like in that youtube video of yours, but implemented into the actual game, I'd like that very much.

It would be especially useful on cliffy embarks, such as mountains where one z-level is difficult to look around in. Especially if your dwarves are fighting with something, they constantly go up and down between the ramps. Your choice is either to hit the z key to zoom to the captain, (I think it zooms to the captain, anyway) and risk missing any other actions that happens if one of the soldiers is on another z-level.

[Malorn]

I think people have taken my topic far more seriously than I intended it.  I have no desire to replace DT, nor to prevent new content updates.  I'm not trying to suggest a specific change, merely to provide feedback to Toady as to how important his fanbase thinks such changes are.  What I find interesting is that a large majority of low voters say that this update was very important, but that future updates would not be.

Isn't that rather strange?  How could we know the possible use of future updates?  Also, cut the elitism.  I don't want an inaccessible game that I can't share with friends and family.  I want a powerful interface, and an interface that is not dumbed down in the slightest.  The game itself is far too complex for idiots, it always will be.

[nil]

I'm no programer, but it seems like there's a lot of low hanging fruit like this out there that could make a huge difference.  Things like mass-selection on the trade screen and defaulting new trade request screens to last year's agreement.  It couldn't take much time to add copy and pasting in the military equipment menu and the ability to select and copy multiple items/orders both there and in the schedule screen, and both would be huge improvements... and now that we have z-level designations, I'd love to see dwarves refuse to mine any designated ramp that has a designated ramp immediately above it, so one can easily designate multiple level open spaces without worrying about cave-ins. 

A y/n confirmation before deleting burrows would probably save lives.

[Alastar]

What do you mean by "modern interface"? One that doesn't require trial-and-error and Wiki browsing to learn? One that would be intuitive so one didn't have to stop playing every two minutes to check how to do something?

It shouldn't require trial and error. Being intuitive without the Wiki is a lesser concern than working well once you've learned it though. The game itself is slightly on the geeky side anyway, and I think the interface should make little concessions for user-friendliness (while of course be as usable as it can be without giving up power, flexibility and stability).

Some concerns I have with a 'modern interface' are that it may...

- look out of place with CP437 graphics
- require me to wave the mouse about aimlessly and endlessly
- use an inefficient manner of managing menus because 'extensive use of hotkeys is obsolete'
- be too complex (to write and maintain), resulting in slowness and glitchiness
- ditch powerful functionality if it's unintuitive
- be more difficult to integrate with external tools

Attempting to combine the best features of a 'modern interface' and an '80ies throwback' would be difficult to pull off while maintaining consistency, something the current one lacks already.
If it's an 'either-or' decision, I think an 80ies throwback actually suits the game better and I'd like to see work done on improving it... eventually.

[dr_random]

Attempting to combine the best features of a 'modern interface' and an '80ies throwback' would be difficult to pull off while maintaining consistency, something the current one lacks already.
If it's an 'either-or' decision, I think an 80ies throwback actually suits the game better and I'd like to see work done on improving it... eventually.

I'm tempted to answer this. One of my first thoughts and my first suggestion here was to improve the interface. (Along with a wish for a way to view through "air blocks" z-levelwise, as was also suggested here).
I don't consider improvement to be just making all the interface point-and-click-style. I think you can do a couple of thinks a lot quicker by pressing keys. Not the graphic building stuff but administering lists and tables. I missed the mouse as input device for the bigger and fine tuned building projects. In its limitedness I am still glad that I have some mouse support for designations. Moving the pointer to the spot would also be quicker than hitting the cursor keys. To round up: I'd favour a little more mouse for the map. I find myself constantly pressing Ctrl when moving around.

Someone talked about the accessibility of the game. It's hard to change. I hate reading manuals and love to figure out everything by myself. I think you get an idea how frustrating my first attempt at DF was. This game goes very good with a tutorial - learning by doing is a good, sometimes frustrating, way.

[Kay12]

What do you mean by "modern interface"? One that doesn't require trial-and-error and Wiki browsing to learn? One that would be intuitive so one didn't have to stop playing every two minutes to check how to do something?

Some concerns I have with a 'modern interface' are that it may...

And yet, you don't explain what you mean by "modern interface", so please elaborate. I would be more than glad to see some "modern" elements, like mouse support, in DF.