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[IronyOwl]

Yeah, sorry. Vector's long-awaited stuff should help things quite a bit, but I'll see if I can't get some more activity before then. For now though, just this:

This post was what made me think why you haven't included scriver/kilakan in your suspects list. Maybe you could explain it now ?

As the very next post suggests, kilakan had asked for a replace at that point. I didn't see much value questioning someone who wasn't there and would never be there, nor did I think preemptively questioning his replacement was a good idea.

As for the looking for approval thingy : That is innocent enough i would omit it but alongside with this ( here i also wonder where he got this advice, because it's not like you directly said to him that he should question others ) i start to question if it's only taking the IC advice.

Neither of those look particularly like scum looking for his partner's approval to me; standard noob trying to sort of follow the IC's advice, or nooby scum trying to do the same seems more likely.

The advice might have been from scumchat, and/or it might have been him realizing that he didn't have anything else on JC, and just riding him wasn't going to work. I did tell him to question people, with sort of an inference of "other people."

It's hard to point where you have not questioned him but your your vote on him was basically a lurker call, and with each consequent response you just kept on correcting his mistakes without putting any apparent pressure on him.

I pressured him more here. The one after that was more explaining how to play, but I don't think I was going completely IC-mode on him.

Not that i'm terribly convinced you're scum but i mainly investigated scriver/kilakan/urist interactions with my prime suspects, and i could just be wrong in doing that at all.

No, that's good. Especially in this case, where it looks like I might have been going easy on him while still riding my vote on him to a lynch.

Nonetheless, I think you might be confusing "gave him IC advice" with "was buddying up to him."

[Vector]

I would like to make a gamble.


The conditions are as follows:

Today, everyone ignores me and whatever scumminess you think I might possess based on Webadict's "work," and we look for scum in all quarters but mine.  Calling me out on things I have done is fine--scummy quotations, whatever.  Waffling over whether or not you think you believe Webadict and whether I'm passive oh my god is not fine.

In other words, today everyone promises not to jump in the wine and hunt their hearts out.  No more hunting based on the opinions of someone else's archeology.  Genuine, aggressive activity.


Tomorrow, if conditions

a. We have not won the game
b. People are still strongly suspicious of me (I have been unable to be active and really direct due to finishing off an intensive German class.  Apparently, my inactivity due to my class is the chief reason why people suspect me.  I couldn't do much about it, so hopefully today will reverse some opinions).  If I'm not widely considered town, consider b. true.

hold, I will vote myself and ask to be lynched.


There's a couple of reasons for trying this move.

First, I have fallen under a great deal of suspicion, which I do not believe I'll be able to shift.  Webadict decided I was scum without declaring much in the way of reasoning, and people seem to be going along with that.  I do not have any way to move the words of a dead man, especially not Webadict.  I strongly suspect that I will be in suspicion as long as I live.  At this point, I strongly doubt I will be nightkilled.  It simply wouldn't be helpful.

Therefore, the question is not one of whether I will be lynched, but when.  We have three days.

If I am lynched at Lylo, town will lose.

If I volunteered myself to be lynched today, town will not get everything out of the death that they might have (a Day of my hunting full-bore with no other obligations, and I would have no ability to clear myself.  Also, it would be stupid.

If I am lynched tomorrow, town will get the benefit of my hunting, the benefit of suspicion clearing the air and an ability to reconsider their feelings before Lylo, and none of the difficulties of my being alive at lylo.


I am very interested in your responses.

[billybobfred]

o.o

That is not something the last scum in the game would do. Well, unless they could win the game tonight... which they can't.

Unvote.

*sigh* Now I need to decide who to look into next. I have a few choices but I'm kinda busy right now.

[Reverie]

Vector: I cannot take Webadict's case against you at face value. This might just be my inexperience talking, but I have a difficult time looking past all of the salt he has attempted to spread into your wounds, and reaching D2 little worse for wear should give you some credit. Those 100 or so posts you have written may not contain as much in scum-hunting as some among us would like, but I attribute that to your need to multi-task between hunting for scum, your being an IC and the wall you maintained against Wubs. In my eyes, you have done your share of defending, in a way that the rest of us have not.
Call it what you will, but I remain to be convinced that you are scum.

Bdthemag:You have questions that need answering, and I have noticed that you have dropped in for several unrelated threads over these last few days. If time online for you is so scarce, why don't you leave a note saying as much, right here in this thread? I think that I have been very generous with my suspicion for you without calling you out with a vote, but this is getting absurd.

Flandre I've been in a few games before, but due to me jumping straight into the less beginner friendly games I got nervous and lurked. I guess i'll answer the Dead Urist's questions then, I think Billybob or Simple is scum at the moment. I was defensive early on because my scumhunting isn't that good, so I decided I could balance it out by being more defensive. And I dissapeared because I got really fucking busy, and didn't have alot of time to go on the computer.

You are lurking at present, so please tell me: what makes you so nervous in this game?

Simple: Where are you from? You do not need to answer if you want to keep that to yourself, but my curiosity finally got the better of me.

[Think0028]

Votecount

IronyOwl[1]: Simple
Bdthemag[2]:  Urist_McArathos, Flandre

Not voting: billybobfred, IronyOwl, Vector, Bdthemag


The day will end Monday, the 15th , 7:00 PM Central time. You need 3 people to Extend and 5 to Shorten.

[Urist_McArathos]

2) Billybobfred/Vector.  Both have some things that are making me suspicious, but it's hard to pin them down with anything too solid.  Unfortunately, Weba being NKed is hard to ignore when making a case against Vector.  It seems like an obvious scum framing (but that way lies WIFOM, so I try to push it aside).

3) IronyOwl.  Not much on the owl, but I was fairly sure at least one IC was scum, and I'm not sure where I stand on Irony.  Bears watching, at least.

Is there any particular reason you're not questioning any of your three secondary suspicions?

Sorry for my delays; got some unexpected 17 hours shifts thrown my way the past few days, it's been nothing but work and sleep for me.

Honestly, I don't have as much on my others that's solid, and I'm trying to think of a case.  I admit I get a little focused on my number one pick.

I'm torn on Vector because she has been scummy in some ways and absent, but she's also made it abundantly clear she's busy IRL.  Lack of activity is therefore easily explained, so I am not sure if her lack of effort is a scumtell or not.  Her most recent post has pushed her down my list a bit; it seems, as stated by billybobfred, like the kind of thing a genuinely remorseful townie would do to make up for poor activity.  Not enough to clear her in my eyes, but enough to be a fair offer to evaluate.

Billybobfred, oddly enough, is my other suspect you mentioned.  I don't have a strong case on him, more of a gut feeling I'm exploring.  I really think Bdthemag is the last scum, so if I'm wrong I need to take a hard look at you all, since the true scum would be doing a damn good job of hiding.

[billybobfred]

it seems, as stated by billybobfred, like the kind of thing a genuinely remorseful townie would do to make up for poor activity.

Never mind "genuinely remorseful townie", IF she's scum, she basically just won us the game by offering herself up to be lynched.

It's only the fact that she could be scum seeking refuge in audacity that makes me resolved to lynch her tomorrow if we don't find scum today.

[Urist_McArathos]

it seems, as stated by billybobfred, like the kind of thing a genuinely remorseful townie would do to make up for poor activity.

Never mind "genuinely remorseful townie", IF she's scum, she basically just won us the game by offering herself up to be lynched.

It's only the fact that she could be scum seeking refuge in audacity that makes me resolved to lynch her tomorrow if we don't find scum today.

Really, I'm on the fence with her more because it seemed like she was lurking, and playing passively (and therefore not interested in finding scum).  I also considered it odd how defensive and active she became with Webadict.  Of course, none of those make for a solid case, which is why she never topped my list.  I've found what I consider to be better targets though, so I'm focused more on them.  Her offer seemed fair, and like the sort a townie genuinely wanting to make up for lost time and erroneous suspicions would make.  Remorseful may be the wrong term (since she may not feel remorse, or feel she's done anything wrong), but I think you all get what I mean by now.

[Vector]

I'm not being "remorseful."  I'm trying to get the best of a bad situation.  I frankly don't feel very bad at all about prioritizing my studies over an internet game.

[Urist_McArathos]

I'm not being "remorseful."  I'm trying to get the best of a bad situation.  I frankly don't feel very bad at all about prioritizing my studies over an internet game.

I did try to clarify what I meant in my next post.  I wouldn't expect anyone to put a game before important matters, and didn't want to imply you should feel bad for doing so.  Hopefully I've made what I meant to say and screwed up sufficiently clear, and I've not offended you.

[Bdthemag]

Flandre Generally I don't want to screw over the town by doing something stupid that would unintentionally help the scum. I may worry about that too much though :/

Simple If you want to lynch me for lurking, go ahead. If you feel I haven't been helping town then you can lynch me, honestly what else did you expect me to say about that? And my top three scum list is, Billybob, You, and Urist.

[billybobfred]

Bdthemag, that is one of the shittiest responses I have ever seen. (I have seen worse, but all two of them boil down to "implausible fakeclaim, then stop defending yourself".)

I pretty much can't imagine how you could screw over town by mistake, except by being so scummy you get yourself lynched before the actual scum. (Which, if you're town, you are kind of doing right now!)

Well, I can imagine one scenario. If you're a power role (and I'm going to request that you NOT comment on this possibility in any way), you might accidentally reveal yourself and get nightkilled, thus depriving the town of your ability. But you know what? You can't be a very good power role if you have no idea what's going on, and I've learned from this very game that it's a lot easier to tell what's going on if you're actively participating.

In the significantly more likely scenario that you're not a power role, you can help town out by looking so dangerous to the scum that they nightkill you instead of the actual power roles. But you're not threatening if you're not participating!

tl;dr: Get participating or get lynched.

[Reverie]

Flandre Generally I don't want to screw over the town by doing something stupid that would unintentionally help the scum. I may worry about that too much though :/

Simple If you want to lynch me for lurking, go ahead. If you feel I haven't been helping town then you can lynch me, honestly what else did you expect me to say about that? And my top three scum list is, Billybob, You, and Urist.

If you are town, then you are helping the scum by hiding from us, Bd. Don't you see the unwanted attention that gets you?
Also, I will pretend you haven't conceded to Billybob. I do not want to see you get lynched just because you abstain from defending yourself; that attitude hurts the town as well as yourself. I also want to know more about why you suspect those three on your list. Preferably before tomorrow evening, because my vote stands.

[Reverie]

EDIT: Not billybob, I meant Urist.

[Reverie]

EDIT 2: Simple! Not Billybob, or Urist. Wow, that was awful.