Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[webadict]

Okay, time to try a few replies...not much since I can see today was slow.

First up, Webadict.

I don't see why this wouldn't be "wise," except for the fact that I am, on all accounts, Town. Which means you're obviously reading the wrong parts.

You may claim that you're Town, but I am clearly inclined to disagree.  I said it may be unwise since I'm trading points with a vastly more experienced player, not because scumhunting is unwise.  I'm sure I have misread some things. I'd love for you to clear them up for me; if I'm hunting the wrong player, no time like the present to inform me of that and get to hunting the real scum, right?  Let's see what you said...

Let's see what you didn't read first... Oh right! Perhaps you realize that there's this thing called "dead men tell no tales"? Well, the reason I'm pushing Vector around is to get the most information out of her before she dies as possible. I don't think there were two non-Vector votes. There was only Flandre, and I had already provided rationale for that, but as I can see you skip over all the things you read, I'll have to explain it again and hope you don't jump over this part: I was voting Flandre in an attempt to see how Vector would craft an argument on her. I had two other suspicions, and if you couldn't tell, Vector has jumped onto both of them.

No, there were two votes.  You voted for Bdthemag because "he was the scummiest".  You then changed your vote right back to Vector once the extension went through, AFTER quoting JC and saying you should have voted him instead.  When pressed for details on what changed your mind about JC, you dismissed it with the comment "I don't even think you know what you're asking anymore".

This was RIGHT AFTER IronyOwl made it clear that votes should be considered lynch votes.  You moved to lynch Bd (someone who you started with "we shouldn't lynch today), specifically because you wanted to avoid a tie.  So much for now wanting him lynched, though I doubt it was a sincere effort; you did vote for an extension.  Why risk it though?  What if the extension had failed?  You never explained why you wanted Bd lynched beyond "he's scummy"; I think you're scummy too, but I at least am offering my reasons, however laughable and outrageous you may find them.  Then you declare JC even scummier (despite being certain he was town, your own words on the matter), but vote instead for Vector. 

So, you clearly also forgot this whole thing happened.  Why would you be so careless with your votes?  You've only voted for three people, and five times.  It's not much, but you can't even remember all of them?  Lynch votes are not something to flippantly toss about, unless you're scum and don't really care about the hunt.  Yeah, it's a lame, obvious scumtell, I know.  True scum wouldn't do something so blatantly stupid because it's illogical, right?  Don't worry, I won't call it a scumtell.  But you know what?

...considering that I've done almost every scumtell in the book and STILL haven't even received a vote...

I don't really have to, do I?  You know what you're doing, and I think you know you're good enough to get away with it.

And yes, I did criticize her play. Do you have a reason why I shouldn't?

Not at all; if you'd read my response to Vector, I agreed this was a valid point; hell, even she agreed with your criticisms.  I'm not defending Vector here, she is after all my number two pick.  I just don't have as heavy a case against her, for my own noobish reasons (which I'll cover in a bit, in response to Simple).

And yet I have two suspicions, oddly enough. I don't think you've even taken a look at what I said. I believe I said, "Vector is scum." During this time I have been analyzing her arguments toward people I suspect to be her scumpartner. These people have been Flandre and Urist, who you will notice as the people that Vector has voted. Why you seem to think I'm "not glancing at anyone" is beyond me, since I've decided on who NOT to lynch, and therefore there would be no need to focus on them. I mean, let me ask you this: "Why aren't you focusing on Flandre?" Dur, because you don't think she's scum! Wow, this might be a new concept to you, but people actually have logical thought processes!

So, why would it make sense for me to know who BOTH scum are? I know how Vector plays well, so if I know she's scum, I will follow it to the ends of the Earth. Anyone she goes after will be judged as to the severity of the attack.

I have taken a look at what you said.  You said it's bad practice to build teams, but you're doing it anyway because you can't lynch Vector.  Why not?  Why can't you try to lynch Vector, especially if you're so certain you have her scumpartners figured out?

What bothers me isn't that nobody else is on your radar (I acknowledged that you fingered Urist Mcinternetuser as a potential buddy, if you'd remember), but that you're not bothering to ask THEM any questions or hunt them in any form.  Your entire strategy revolves around harassing Vector until you can find her connections?  It doesn't seem like scumhunting, it seems like single-minded harassing.  Why not question Urist, or Flandre, or anyone else you consider to be scum?  Especially if they're newbies, aren't they more likely to crack than someone who is just as familiar with your style and methods as you are hers?  Why can't you do it the other way?  Remember, I'm not attacking your refusal to interrogate the people you think are Town, I'm critiquing your refusal to question any of your so-called scumpicks except one.  This one also happens to be your most vocal (and until I showed up ONLY) opponent.

I left out the bit about the chainlynching; I already admitted I misread that line and built an entire point and attack around it.  It looked terrible, and I'm thoroughly embarrassed by it.  Rookie mistake, not double checking my words and yours before hitting "Post".  I'll try not to let it happen again.

Again, I applaud your effort to misread the situation and jump over the important parts. Maybe I didn't explain this well, but I did that exact thing as scum IC. It IS a "no harsh feelings" post. QQ about it some more, but THAT'S what I would've done in her shoes as scum. Also, thanks for repeating the same ol' things.

Here's where you have it wrong:  You're referring to THIS post of Vector's.  Meanwhile, the one I was referring to was...

Flandre, don't assume that one must be town and the other scum, or even that either of us is town.

A simple tip, which you did confirm was accurate (which, to be fair, was a nice move as an IC), but not without taking a pot-shot at Vector.

That's my point: making us aware that any of you three could be scum (or even all of you, though I find that unlikely) had ZERO tactical advantages.  Yet you used it as just another chance to pick at her, and tried to twist it to make her look scummy.  No one's QQing about her little comforting remark, I'm pointing out that you seem determined to use every, EVERY possible weapon against her.  Why are you so determined and so certain, despite having done relatively nothing besides antagonize her?

And if I were scum, your bet would probably be right. But, let's take a hypothetical stroll down scum Webadict lane. If I were scum, do you think I WOULDN'T be allowed to help my partner in scum chat? Do you think that there ISN'T a scum IC in there already? Do you honestly believe that being scum involves making an enemy out of Vector, especially when she would have thought nothing of me had I not pursued her? I mean, if you want to play the worst scum in the world, sure, you've just screwed yourself over. Scum play logically, too. They don't do things because scum wouldn't UNLESS it helps them achieve their goal. Think logically for a second.

So, congratulations on misreading everything important. I've enjoyed it.

That bit about attacking Vector seems off; why would Vector think nothing of you?  If (and we're assuming this purely for the sake of argument, since we're taking that stroll down scum Webadict lane after all) she's Town, she has no reason to believe you can't be scum, and just as much reason to suspect you as anyone else.  More, in fact, since you're a cunning and experienced player who will be VERY hard for the newbs to sniff out on their own.  Do you really believe that you are so minor a presence here that you can be readily ignored without consequences, ESPECIALLY by those who don't know your true alignment?

Now, I'll admit I don't know what a "no harsh feelings" post is, that's why I wasn't referring to it.  I'm not deliberately arguing from ignorance, I'm trying to confront you with the holes, flaws, and contradictions that have led me to believe you're scum (and there's a LOT of them).

Of course I believe there is a scum IC right now; I believe there's at least two of you (you and LNCP), and I know you can use scum chat to help each other.  Yes, I believe being scum means taking out the Town ICs that have the best chance of identifying you, and if you're scum you know whether or not Vector is (and if she's not, best to get rid of her before she can build a case against you).  The other option that I've seriously considered is that you two are scumbuddies and this is an elaborate bussing.  Maybe that seems a bit too obvious, but maybe you feel you can pull it off in a room full of newbies, especially with the last IC (that would be IronyOwl) focused elsewhere.  Or hell, maybe Irony's your scumbuddy too and is helping keep us in the dark.

I don't know, that's why I'm not voting for them or building teams.  I'm hunting scum one by one, and you're my number one.  I'm not going to blow a lynch vote on a newbie scumbuddy (or a less likely IC suspect) when a more experienced mafia can be taken out instead.  If you're really Town, now's the time to start teaching me where I'm screwing up and start giving me a reason to trust you instead of suspect you.

I've got 10 minutes to write a reply, as I'm really tired and have to go to work, so I'll make it short. I'll give you a better reply later. Maybe lunch. Probably not.

If you want to argue building teams, technically I'm gathering more information from a biased source. So, not exactly building teams, as I legitimately found those two to be scummy BEFORE looking at how Vector was arguing for their lynch.

And, as I have pointed out earlier, I have already cemented in my mind Vector's scummitude. She IS SCUM. Right now, you're acting like she's a baby and that she is so helpless to defend herself. And I've pointed out the many things she's done wrong.

As for tactical advantage, that's not necessarily true. You can make any scum move into a tactical advantage with the right words and the right twists.

I also applaud that you make going after Vector a lose-lose situation in your description. Nicely done!

So, in conclusion, the one "chainlynching" would probably be you, since if you get me lynched, I'll flip Town, and then you'll use what I said to lynch Vector. Just, you know, if you want to argue semantics.

Anyhow, got to work.

[Reverie]

Today is turning out to be sort of busy, so I will not be on my computer until a little later. I will be keeping track of the thread over my phone, though, and I will post something meaningful at my first opportunity.

[Think0028]

Votecount

Bdthemag[2]: billybobfred, Urist Mcinternetuser
Urist_McArathos[1]:  Bdthemag
Vector[1]: webadict
Urist Mcinternetuser[3]: IronyOwl, Simple, Flandre
webadict[2]: Urist_McArathos, Vector

The day will end TODAY, 7:00 PM Central time. You need 3 people to Extend and 5 to Shorten.

[Urist_McArathos]

Webadict

I'm not saying Vector is defenseless; she doesn't need me white knighting for her, I know that much from what little I've read so far.  I'm not denying she has a lot of scummy behavior to answer for (for the third time, she is my second pick, and if you're not scum I'm certain she is).  I'm mostly skeptical about the way you're conducting your hunt: you seem more concerned with undermining one player than investigating, since you aren't really pressuring or investigating anyone else.  I know you have some fairly good ideas about who else is scum, and I want to know why you're not investigating them as well, particularly since we're nearing the end of day one and a strong town player (which you claim to be, since you claim to be town and are objectively a strong player here) is a likely NK target to me.  Dead men tell no tales indeed, and if you're town this might be your ONE day to help us find scum; why are you focused on only one person?  Why is it not acceptable for you to question anyone else along with Vector?

Vector

Firstly, I'm hoping to see some action against Webadict, as you were referring to earlier.  The weekend is generally slow, I get that, but now that you've had a chance to rest and it's a weekday, I think it's fair to expect you to do that working over you hinted at earlier.

I'm curious about your behavior thus far in the thread.  Webadict called you out on being too quiet and passive, and you didn't really get moving until he started poking you.  You were pretty tenacious, but I haven't heard much from you either in the ways of investigation or responses to Webadict since I jumped in and launched my case.  Pretty much some brief responses from you in regards to simpler questions.  It feels like you're fading back into the background while Webadict is distracted with me.  What gives?  Are you resting up (I recall you saying you wanted to take a break Friday after a busy week)?  If so, when are you going to get back to work?  The end of Day One is approaching rapidly, after all.  It seems like a bad time for Town to go dark.

Bdthemag, I really want to ask you a few questions to clarify some odd things I've noticed about you, and I find it odd you refuse to be around for anything more than minimal posts.  You still have me voted because you voted for JC, for instance.  It seems like you're paying little attention to what's going on in here, and just want the day to coast to an end.  Coupled with how you seemed to be lurking earlier, this almost completely silent behavior has me wondering if you're busy or just scum trying to fly under the radar.  I can't say much though, since as I said, you're not here to question!

Billbobfred

Where are you?  You were a lot more active earlier in the game, and you too seem to be a lot quieter recently.

MOD:  Is that Central Standard Time like in the US (i.e., the time zone in Dallas)?  Because I'm in CST and I noticed the other day Max White's countdown was off from my own time.  I just want to know precisely when the day ends.

[Think0028]

I'm terrible with time zones, but it's supposed to be 5:00 PM in California and 7:00 PM forum time.

[webadict]

I already gave my suspicions. Vector and McInternetuser. After that, I've got nothing useful to add at the moment, since I can focus more with Vector gone.

[Reverie]

McInternetuser, I am sorry, but whatever is keeping you from posting is denying you the opportunity to convince me that you are not scum. Keeping mum, and not even telling us that you are busy only makes you look scummier.  Don't you have anything to say?

[lordnincompoop]

Simple, Urist Mcinternetuser and billybobfred need to be poked.

[Think0028]

Simple and Urist both posted on Saturday, so they will not be poked. billybobfred has been poked.

[Vector]

Currently fighting depression.

Anyway, at this point I'm just going to vote Urist McInternetuser and be done with it.  I'd like to do better by this game, but it's finals week in my German class and I don't have time to lead a one-woman assault on Mount Webadict.

[Urist_McArathos]

MOD, the day ends in 3 and a half hours from now, correct?

Just making sure I'm synced up properly.

[Think0028]

Yes, exactly!

[Reverie]

Today has lasted forever, and I was so sure that the we would have seen plenty of activity now that it is finally coming to a close.

[Reverie]

Also, you seem to be a natural at this, McArathos. Have you played anything similar to Mafia before?

[billybobfred]

*is poked*

... Yeah, I got nothing. This Day 1 is just getting too long, I think.