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[Vector]

Oh, and the other thing:

Why did the argument between myself and Webadict convince you that the two of us were town?  What I've learned from your list is that you've cleared almost everyone but Urist and IronyOwl, and IronyOwl is not clear because...

Ah, yes.  IronyOwl is ICing.  Exactly the charge that Webadict tried to nail me on.  Except for the fact that mostly, IronyOwl is playing and isn't really correcting play much.  So that's a trumped-up charge right there.

So why is it, precisely, that when you don't have any information on IronyOwl you don't do the townie thing (theoretically demonstrated by Webadict) and instead you do the scummy thing (borrow allegations)?

Also, one of those posts you attributed to Webadict was written by me.  I'm just letting you know that for the sake of interest.


Web: Frankly, I have a very hard time letting you go "Oh, Vector's still scum (for no reason but being gone for a while and apparently process of elimination on newbies), but let's lynch these other two people first!"  It looks a hell of a lot like lynch chaining.

This is the part where you failed to claim town, and I start raising my eyebrow.

I thought that went without saying.

No.  Scumbucket.

[Reverie]

Oh, and the other thing:

Why did the argument between myself and Webadict convince you that the two of us were town?  What I've learned from your list is that you've cleared almost everyone but Urist and IronyOwl, and IronyOwl is not clear because...

Ah, yes.  IronyOwl is ICing.  Exactly the charge that Webadict tried to nail me on.  Except for the fact that mostly, IronyOwl is playing and isn't really correcting play much.  So that's a trumped-up charge right there.

So why is it, precisely, that when you don't have any information on IronyOwl you don't do the townie thing (theoretically demonstrated by Webadict) and instead you do the scummy thing (borrow allegations)?

I don't have a read on IronyOwl, whereas I do with you and Webadict. IronyOwl as an IC has been very helpful by providing good tips and helpful advice, but I have not really seen him needing to really defend himself because no one has really attacked him. Until I, or someone else interrogates him, he will remain on the list until I can read him. Watching you and Wuba argue has allowed me to read the both of you, so I have no reason to suspect the either of you. This is why you two fall under 'everyone else'.

Also, one of those posts you attributed to Webadict was written by me.  I'm just letting you know that for the sake of interest.

I responded to the post you said that I missed. The first line was for you, and from them on, I addressed Webadict.

[billybobfred]

What reason would you have to freak out and leave for days at a time, though?

Well every time I did anything in this game that was an actual thing I somehow convinced myself that everyone would flip out and hate me for it

Spoiler: pointless wangsting inside (click to show/hide)

even though this idea is completely ridiculous

and even if I had screwed up to that kind of an extent, the absolute worst-case scenario would be that I get imaginary-killed in a game of imaginary mobsters

but even knowing that doesn't stop me from being all neurotic about anything involving interacting with people

=/

[Vector]

If it helps, bro, I have fairly severe social disabilities and came here to work on overcoming them--two years ago.

Still around, despite being killed quite a few times myself =)  But mostly, I end up alright.  So get out there, and have fun, and take risks.  No one is going to get genuinely pissed at you, no matter how stupid you are.  I, er... speak from experience.

And if you want to keep yourself alive, be active, keep talking, and don't worry when people call you names.  We're bluffing most of the time.  Just between us two ;]

[webadict]

Web: Frankly, I have a very hard time letting you go "Oh, Vector's still scum (for no reason but being gone for a while and apparently process of elimination on newbies), but let's lynch these other two people first!"  It looks a hell of a lot like lynch chaining.

Hmm? No, I don't think you quite understand. I KNOW you're scum. You've got a certain air about you when you're scum. It's actually quite easy to see. Unfortunately, I'm just waiting for people to realize the obvious things.

So, your life hangs on my ability to make a bandwagon on you. Which I won't at this moment. I feel like leading you around some more. Because, really, I'm just that manipulative. Plus, you're helping me figure out who's your real partner.

And, oh yeah, it pretty much is chainlynching. Got any problems with that? I could even do a "lynch me, then lynch Vector" one if you want. I mean, you might as well try to get rid of me now. Passive attacks are just so unbecoming.

I'm just trying to figure out how much effort you're going to put into lynching certain people. I think Urist might in fact be your partner, instead, but I can't quite tell. See, you probably wouldn't allow Flandre to be like this. I mean, if I were her scum partner, I'd probably be giving her tips if I was going to focus on her. I don't think you'd write this post if you were scum with her:

If it helps, bro, I have fairly severe social disabilities and came here to work on overcoming them--two years ago.

Still around, despite being killed quite a few times myself =)  But mostly, I end up alright.  So get out there, and have fun, and take risks.  No one is going to get genuinely pissed at you, no matter how stupid you are.  I, er... speak from experience.

And if you want to keep yourself alive, be active, keep talking, and don't worry when people call you names.  We're bluffing most of the time.  Just between us two ;]

That's the scum IC reassuring newbie Town post. Basically a "no harsh feelings" post.

Anything else you'd like to accuse me of, Vector? I mean, considering that I've done almost every scumtell in the book and STILL haven't even received a vote... Doesn't it just make you mad? Do you know WHY I've done this? Other than that I'm a bad person, it's to show that being scum is NOT about scumtells. So, accuse me of doing another scumtell. I know all your threats are empty, since you want me on your side.

Feel free to write in scumchat how much you hate me.

[Vector]

I'm town, you Arschgeige.  I don't have a scumchat to complain in or you'd be getting something other than my full frustration.  If you hinge this game on me being scum and pull the newbies around by the nose to get me lynched, you are going to lose it for us.  Presumably.  Maybe you'll just be winning it for yourself.  I really wish you wouldn't teach the newbies so many bad habits by example, however.  You are showing everyone precisely how this game shouldn't be played in the outset, and it's seriously irking me.

I do not have any ability to give anyone outside of this thread tips.  Not Flandre, not Urist, not anyone else.

That post was the IC with semi-crippling, irritatingly obvious Asperger's hoping that maybe, just maybe someone else won't feel as alone as she did, and can find a home here as well.  It has nothing to do with alignment and everything to do with my capacity for compassion.  Not all of us calculate absolutely every move, you know.

And yes, you piss me right the fuck off, but being angry with you is different from being incapable of controlling myself.  If I genuinely had a scum read from you, rather than just a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach, I would vote you and be done with it.  Right now, I just sit here hoping that you'll eventually stop listening to that bullshit machine in your basement and start listening to reason.

All I can do right now is carefully examine what you have to say and hope that I'll be able to catch you if you need catching, and let you go if you're genuinely innocent.  I'd rather have you working for town rather than against it, sure, but I'll take the best I can get.

[billybobfred]

I think Urist might in fact be your partner, instead, but I can't quite tell. See, you probably wouldn't allow Flandre to be like this.

webadict, are you creating teams?

I seem to recall something you said in another game...

STOP CREATING TEAMS. STOP. DOING. IT. IT DOESN'T WORK.

That's... more than a little off, isn't it?

[billybobfred]

I also seem to recall you were a lot less abrasive in that game.

Though my perceptions might be skewed by the fact that you spent most of it dead...

[webadict]

I'm town, you Arschgeige.  I don't have a scumchat to complain in or you'd be getting something other than my full frustration.  If you hinge this game on me being scum and pull the newbies around by the nose to get me lynched, you are going to lose it for us.  Presumably.  Maybe you'll just be winning it for yourself.  I really wish you wouldn't teach the newbies so many bad habits by example, however.  You are showing everyone precisely how this game shouldn't be played in the outset, and it's seriously irking me.

I do not have any ability to give anyone outside of this thread tips.  Not Flandre, not Urist, not anyone else.

That post was the IC with semi-crippling, irritatingly obvious Asperger's hoping that maybe, just maybe someone else won't feel as alone as she did, and can find a home here as well.  It has nothing to do with alignment and everything to do with my capacity for compassion.  Not all of us calculate absolutely every move, you know.

And yes, you piss me right the fuck off, but being angry with you is different from being incapable of controlling myself.  If I genuinely had a scum read from you, rather than just a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach, I would vote you and be done with it.  Right now, I just sit here hoping that you'll eventually stop listening to that bullshit machine in your basement and start listening to reason.

All I can do right now is carefully examine what you have to say and hope that I'll be able to catch you if you need catching, and let you go if you're genuinely innocent.  I'd rather have you working for town rather than against it, sure, but I'll take the best I can get.

Anybody can say they're Town. It's part of the point of the game, after all. Unfortunately, I can hardly believe such a statement. I don't like being threatened with the loss of the game by the potential mislynch of one individual. I do, however, enjoy your clear-as-day passive attacks.

As for your previous post, I suppose I'll let you slide on that point. While I suppose every move I make is carefully calculated, I tend to assume others will too, as I'd rather be cautious.

To be fair, my post is more along the lines of "stop making passive attacks on me." It's getting old. Just say it straightforward and be done with it. Say "You're setting up chainlynchs." Don't say "that looks an awfully lot like chainlynching," since this one is easily countered with a "But it's not." And then I could easily waste your time with semantics. At least with the first one, you're taking a stance. I might not be chainlynching, but what I'm doing could definitely be scummy. See the difference?

It's those little things that I want to lynch you for, because you should know better than to not be making passive attacks or lurk or activelurk. It builds up.

Do you think I'm doing these things to make you mad? That'd be pointless. I'm doing this because you're not doing BASIC things!

I think Urist might in fact be your partner, instead, but I can't quite tell. See, you probably wouldn't allow Flandre to be like this.

webadict, are you creating teams?

I seem to recall something you said in another game...

STOP CREATING TEAMS. STOP. DOING. IT. IT DOESN'T WORK.

That's... more than a little off, isn't it?

That's correct. You shouldn't be making teams. But, unfortunately, I'm unable to lynch Vector at this moment, so, I'm afraid I'm left with few alternatives. These are: lynch someone I suspect to be Vector's teammate OR try to figure out Vector's teammate. Since the first one on its own isn't usually a good idea, I'm using a combinatorial approach.

[billybobfred]

Also:

Vector is scum. Whether I think so or not is pointless if I KNOW she is.

you CANNOT be "entirely sure" someone is scum. Ever.

You are contradicting yourself an awful lot!

[Vector]

Flandre, thank you for the answers.  Unvote.


*sigh*

I'm trying to leave a trail.  If I levy direct attacks on you right now, I'll have to deal with you in full--which I can't.  It's not time to make a case.  If I end up getting lynched, I want to have pointed out every single last thing I can before that happens.

But very well.  I will rephrase all future commentary in order to leave you no space to finagle your way out of.


BillyBobFred, Webadict is enjoying his run through the beginner's game by doing absolutely every single thing a newbie shouldn't do and waiting for someone to knock him flat on his ass.  He's proving to us that town can be led around by the nose as long as enough authority is employed.

Scum is about more than scumtells, right Wub?  It's mostly about making yourself look as big as possible, so no one can do anything about you, and appealing to authority and threats.  You attack a juicy target, save them for later if they're at all capable of defending themselves, and call it all out on your gut--because you're big old Webadict, who is never wrong.  And you like playing scum with flair.  It's all about how much shit you can shove down other people's throats before they call you on it.  I figured this out from your scumchat last game, by the way.

You appeal to techniques of town-hunting because you know I'll recognize them as some sort of "vintage Webadict" bullshit, rather than what they are--an ability to direct and manipulate.  Which you enjoy doing, as you said.

Your attacks are weak and entirely empty of any real force.  What the fuck IS your case on Flandre, anyway?  Pretty much empty, much like your case on me?  You attack my targets and call them my "scumteam," restricting my fire; and then you'll be able to chain-lynch me to death in the end-game, the crowning cherry of this big bullshit cake you're weaving.

You call out gambits because you know I'd do nothing to get myself lynched as town, and that I'll never call your bluff.  It's not in my character.  It's not dangerous for you.

And behind all this, you're taunting us for failing to vote you despite your wheelbarrows of shit?

No.  Webadict, you're a sack of scum covered in warts.  Enjoy hanging.

[Simple]

Arggh. I'm here and i get to digging trough all this. Sorry for my absence, Unvote till i asses the situation.

[Simple]

I'll start with this and then get on specific things and votes.

jc6036 - He's random as hell. I can't say for sure if that's because he don't know what to do or because he tries to influence the situation to his gain without much effort. He tries at least and that makes me think he's not scum.

Flandre - Agrees Vector - assumes town. She's not here to hunt scum but to give us clues - makes me think about her purpose of this way of playing.Don't want to retaliate on anything, fears calling out omgus probably ? Let's other do work for her ( accusing themselves ) Few times adds the despite of alignment annotation and then says it's obvious when asked.

Bdthemag - He's completelty lazy but i have the feeling he just don't care about being lynched or scum victory either. That bascially makes him completely useless but gives us no insight on his real goals. I guess i was to inclined to judge him basing on his attitiude than his actions. Praising billybob case on him based only on length of his post is riddicoulous though.Also dropping by just to say extend twice in a row is annoying as hell.

Urist Mcinternetuser - Need to say something more but if i were to judge him he leans more on the scum side right now. At first it was just saying he already posted full case on jc ( if it is real i couldn't find it ) then in every question asked after that he changed his opinion on what was most suspiucious about him. Then he uses someone else questions and cases without adding or asking somehting of his own. Then his strange backup of flandre (he made it clear that he's sure that she's town) at some point , this seemed like a way to keep her on attacking the same target as him.

billybobfred - He seems to be  inclined to using only definite facts that can't be simply dismissed but i can't tell if that's because he don't want to make mistake or he's fearing quick counterattack.

webadict - presses on in rather specific way but if it makes people respond it can't be bad.And there's this last taunting post about which i can't tell if it was serious or rather just provoking.

Vector - I agree with most of her arguments from last few posts so i guess it's at least somewhat clearing her name but it's hard for me to tell if i'm just being decieved.

IronyOwl - Here i got the problem of not seeing a definite suspect from him yet. And i guess if he won't provide one it will rise my suspicion quite a bit.

Also argument beetween Vector and Webadict left me with the feeling that i have no idea what good mafia play looks like. Or that town should always start with lynching IC just to be sure. Albo dokładnie odwrotnie.

[Simple]

Damn, that's what i get for writing two things at once. Ignore the last sentence. (and triple post..)

[webadict]

Also:

Vector is scum. Whether I think so or not is pointless if I KNOW she is.

you CANNOT be "entirely sure" someone is scum. Ever.

You are contradicting yourself an awful lot!

Not QUITE the same. Mostly because I was just being funny in that first one. When I say I know Vector is scum, it means I would cut off my right arm to lynch her because that's how sure I am she's scum.

Flandre, thank you for the answers.  Unvote.


*sigh*

I'm trying to leave a trail.  If I levy direct attacks on you right now, I'll have to deal with you in full--which I can't.  It's not time to make a case.  If I end up getting lynched, I want to have pointed out every single last thing I can before that happens.

But very well.  I will rephrase all future commentary in order to leave you no space to finagle your way out of.


BillyBobFred, Webadict is enjoying his run through the beginner's game by doing absolutely every single thing a newbie shouldn't do and waiting for someone to knock him flat on his ass.  He's proving to us that town can be led around by the nose as long as enough authority is employed.

Scum is about more than scumtells, right Wub?  It's mostly about making yourself look as big as possible, so no one can do anything about you, and appealing to authority and threats.  You attack a juicy target, save them for later if they're at all capable of defending themselves, and call it all out on your gut--because you're big old Webadict, who is never wrong.  And you like playing scum with flair.  It's all about how much shit you can shove down other people's throats before they call you on it.  I figured this out from your scumchat last game, by the way.

No, no, no, no.

There is no US. There is YOU. Don't bring anyone else in on that. I enjoy that you've now decided I'm scum since I've been playing mind games with you. Did you decide that you no longer wish to give away your secrets?

Classic Vector. I see you're going back to your old ways of voting for scumtells. Cute. So, let's see.

Apparently I'm leading Town around by the nose... So, that means, I've led people to vote for Vector so far. Ah. I see Vector is still voteless. Hm. That means this ISN'T a self-preservation thing. It means that this is an actual attack, and that is a case.

Seriously, don't lie. And if you are going to lie, don't be a pansy about it.

BillyBobFred, Webadict is enjoying his run through the beginner's game by doing absolutely every single thing a newbie shouldn't do and waiting for someone to knock him flat on his ass.  He's proving to us that town can be led around by the nose as long as enough authority is employed.

Scum is about more than scumtells, right Wub?  It's mostly about making yourself look as big as possible, so no one can do anything about you, and appealing to authority and threats.  You attack a juicy target, save them for later if they're at all capable of defending themselves, and call it all out on your gut--because you're big old Webadict, who is never wrong.  And you like playing scum with flair.  It's all about how much shit you can shove down other people's throats before they call you on it.  I figured this out from your scumchat last game, by the way.

I love this quote. It's funny, since YOU yourself have appealed to my authority.

And, really? You think my meta is "act like a jerk to Vector?" I really want to see WHERE you got this idea. I believe that my scumchat last game was the last BM I played. And no, no I didn't. I guess you could call me claiming Cop to be the worst I did. But, falseclaiming is different than what you intended. Stop trying to feed crap to everyone.

You appeal to techniques of town-hunting because you know I'll recognize them as some sort of "vintage Webadict" bullshit, rather than what they are--an ability to direct and manipulate.  Which you enjoy doing, as you said.

Your attacks are weak and entirely empty of any real force.  What the fuck IS your case on Flandre, anyway?  Pretty much empty, much like your case on me?  You attack my targets and call them my "scumteam," restricting my fire; and then you'll be able to chain-lynch me to death in the end-game, the crowning cherry of this big bullshit cake you're weaving.

You're taking the manipulative side. You're manipulating my words to make it seem like anything I do to you is done to the Town. Apparently, you're the Town? I guess that would make sense as to why threatening me with the loss of the Town would occur by me lynching you! My bad for missing that!

As for Townhunting, I love that you're using the REVERSE META argument. Apparently, only SCUM ME would ever act like TOWN ME! Especially when mixed with the fact that you're saying only SCUM ME would ever be so boisterous as TOWN ME!

Do you see the hypocrisy there?

What is my case on Flandre? Well, honestly, I could care less. I'm reading YOUR reaction on Flandre. I just figured I'd give you some moral support. It makes it seem like I'm not watching you that way. To be fair, it doesn't LOOK like Flandre is your partner, so if she is, congratulations.

Anyhow, I enjoy that you assume I'm chainlynching you. By... I don't know. I guess because I said it's like that. Honestly, I was just making fun of you there. But, if you think I'm able to chainlynch, then go right ahead and step on the platform. I don't mind.

You call out gambits because you know I'd do nothing to get myself lynched as town, and that I'll never call your bluff.  It's not in my character.  It's not dangerous for you.

And behind all this, you're taunting us for failing to vote you despite your wheelbarrows of shit?

Everything has to be about danger with me, apparently. I don't think you're understanding things very well. You're not town, and therefore the things you're doing? They're getting you lynched. This is really just a last ditch effort on your part. You finally got what I was doing after all.

And I'm taunting YOU. Not "us" unless "us" refers to your scumteam, in which case, yes, I am taunting your partner too. May Urist (I'm fairly sure) join on your vengevote.

No.  Webadict, you're a sack of scum covered in warts.  Enjoy hanging.

Odd, considering that you didn't consider this an attack. Why would I enjoy hanging? Why were you resigning yourself to being lynched with a total of ZERO votes on you? I mean, sure, I could turn that into a WHOPPING ONE WHOLE VOTES! I'm just that skilled. But, there comes a point where you are shutting down. Probably because I've told you what I was doing.

So, if you want to play the lying game, that's fine by me, Vector. And inb4 you call this an OMGUS, despite me calling you scum beforehand. It would fit right in with the rest of your lies.