Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Reverie]

1) It SHOULDN'T be okay for me to vote you if you're Town, as it should only be okay to vote scum. It is unacceptable to do nothing to defend yourself, and the fact that you've had to read this twice is absurd.

I think this is sound advice, although it was delivered with what felt like a smack to the face. Thank you?

2) When I make a list like that, I do something that you should probably never do: I townhunt. I look the opposite way to see who NOT to lynch.

This explains why you moved over Bd on the list, then--you are crossing out those you are not lynching, rather than just those you feel are town. Why do you discourage townhunting, if I may ask?

3) When I say someone is too stupid to be scum, I mean this: when looking for suspects, it is almost never the most suspicious person. It is also almost never the least suspicious person. It is more than likely the person in the middle, so the "stupid" ones are extraordinarily suspicious in ways scum would never be. Then there's the ones that are super town in a way scum would never be. What do you say about that?

This makes sense, but singling someone out for being moderately suspicious sounds difficult to do. Does this theory apply so much in a BM, where the scum are sure to be nervous and among the most suspicious?

[webadict]

1) It SHOULDN'T be okay for me to vote you if you're Town, as it should only be okay to vote scum. It is unacceptable to do nothing to defend yourself, and the fact that you've had to read this twice is absurd.

I think this is sound advice, although it was delivered with what felt like a smack to the face. Thank you?

I'm kind of a jerk. Basically, if you miss a piece of information, it can cost you the game.

2) When I make a list like that, I do something that you should probably never do: I townhunt. I look the opposite way to see who NOT to lynch.

This explains why you moved over Bd on the list, then--you are crossing out those you are not lynching, rather than just those you feel are town. Why do you discourage townhunting, if I may ask?

Townhunting is bad since you can get easily caught by scum that look severely town. I eliminate people to lynch, which is very bad to do if you're not careful. A really good scum can sneak by and be safe. It is also very scummy to do, as then you're not looking for suspicious behavior.

It's also bad practice. I do it because it's easier for me to find good town things than bad scum things.

3) When I say someone is too stupid to be scum, I mean this: when looking for suspects, it is almost never the most suspicious person. It is also almost never the least suspicious person. It is more than likely the person in the middle, so the "stupid" ones are extraordinarily suspicious in ways scum would never be. Then there's the ones that are super town in a way scum would never be. What do you say about that?

This makes sense, but singling someone out for being moderately suspicious sounds difficult to do. Does this theory apply so much in a BM, where the scum are sure to be nervous and among the most suspicious?

You forget that the town is just as nervous and incredibly more suspicious than the scum. The scum have people they can rely on at all times: their scumpartner and their IC. So, you can't say that scum will be among the most suspicious. Look at any other BM and tell me that the scum were among the most suspicious. Unlikely. They might be 2nd most suspicious, sure, but almost never THE most suspicious. Usually around 4th through 6th.

So, Town is more likely to be suspicious, on account of them not knowing what they need to avoid. Scum has someone to tell them what to avoid.

[Vector]

Flandre: I saw you using female pronouns for yourself elsewhere, so I will be using those in the coming post.

[lordnincompoop]

Mod, you'll probably want to put up a votecount.

[Max White]

Votecount

Bdthemag[3]: Simple, billybobfred, jc6036
jc6036[2]:  Bdthemag, Urist Mcinternetuser
billybobfred[1]: Vector
Vector[1]: webadict

Not Voting: Flandre, IronyOwl

The day will end Thursday, 5:00PM Central time. You need 3 people to Extend and 5 to Shorten.
LNCP: *Tips hat*

[Reverie]

Flandre: I saw you using female pronouns for yourself elsewhere, so I will be using those in the coming post.

Heh, thanks. I have grown used to having genderless forum profiles, so I have never been bothered by either pronoun.

I have not come to any decision on who is scum today, so I am not voting.

[webadict]

Flandre: I saw you using female pronouns for yourself elsewhere, so I will be using those in the coming post.

Heh, thanks. I have grown used to having genderless forum profiles, so I have never been bothered by either pronoun.

I have not come to any decision on who is scum today, so I am not voting.

That's actually incredibly scummy, since you're being passive and not having any suspicions. Scum wouldn't be able to pick someone since they know themselves to be scum and no one else.

[webadict]

Votecount

Bdthemag[3]: , Simple, billybobfred, jc6036
jc6036[2]:  Bdthemag, Urist Mcinternetuser
billybobfred[1]: , Vector
Vector[1]: webadict

Not Voting: Flandre, IronyOwl

The day will end Thursday, 5PM. You need 3 people to Extend and 5 to Shorten.
LNCP: *Tips hat*

5 PM what?

[Max White]

No idea what your talking about.

[Reverie]

Votecount

Bdthemag[3]: , Simple, billybobfred, jc6036
jc6036[2]:  Bdthemag, Urist Mcinternetuser
billybobfred[1]: , Vector
Vector[1]: webadict

Not Voting: Flandre, IronyOwl

The day will end Thursday, 5PM. You need 3 people to Extend and 5 to Shorten.
LNCP: *Tips hat*

5 PM what?

Central time, if what should have been the end of the day 48 hours ago holds any indication.

[Bdthemag]

Wait the day ends today? Are we going to extend this or just end the day?

[Vector]

Honestly, now you're just being angry.

Look, I was expecting someone who claims to have been able to see both beginner scum in a game to have been able to correctly identify scummy people. I just don't see that. I see you going after minor things.

You're going after billybobfred because...? What is your expert opinion on why he is scum, and tell me why, with all factors, that would be true?

Yes.  Got a bit too tired there, sorry.

Getting back in the hunt generally takes a little time.  I went after Billybobfred because I wasn't sure of how I felt about him; didn't have much of a read.  He was cool about being voted and I felt that his list of analyses had a very towny feel.  I didn't have a chance to state that when I saw the new post.

As such, Unvote.  At this point I'm looking at Flandre, Urist McInternetuser (I'd given him the benefit of the doubt due to being a recent replacement, but this level of lurking has simply become absurd), and BDthemag as what is hopefully the final list of three.

Vector, uh... it's a bit disconcerting to hear you admit to trying to play webadict in just the right manner to shake him. Could you elaborate on that?

The more time he spends voting me, the less time he spends voting scum.

Ideally, a townie should promote enough attention to defense that they can become cleared for others' convenience.  I have a very strong interest in lynching scum and keeping the attention on them at all times; I try to strike scum more than I try to clear town, though I do both.  Webadict, on the other hand, is a town-hunter.  The faster I clear myself, the faster he can move on to being more effective elsewhere.  At the same time, the way he reacts to my reactions will tell me something about him...

I believe that for town to be effective, they need to be cautious, careful, consistent, and ragingly energetic.  Town should play a highly self-preservational game.  It isn't that self-preservation is scummy.  It's that there's a balance between twin priorities of the preservation of the self and the attacks on others, and the latter should always be more important than the former.

If everyone is trying to lynch you, it gets a lot harder to make your attacks.  Your defense takes up more and more of your energy.  If you can keep ahead of the curve and answer well before you'd be asked to defend against a full attack, you're generally doing a better job as town.  Some friction is good.  It helps the arguers clear each other.  Too much friction, on the other hand, and you're up the creek.  Either you're lynched or you've lost lots of effort in pig-headed fight you could have easily evaded.  With luck, you can create just the right amount to learn which way is up.

As I've said, I've been in this particular scenario at least 5 times.  I think through what hasn't worked before, and I try something new.  Some things have worked extraordinarily badly, despite being plans taken as town, and I work to avoid them.  All there is to it.

Billybob: Finally, someone votes me and has actual reasoning behind the vote, I applaud you.

Stop buddying/appeasing.

By the way, you still haven't responded to my case.  That makes me think that you're just trying to sweep it under the rug.

I'll add that you're doing better, though: this is why I'm not voting you right now.  So have confidence and keep going.

@Vector I didn't say that Flandre is town, I said that Flandre probably is town, as in I'm not suspicious of him at the moment.

Your last post was two days ago.

Two.  Fucking.  Days.

You were last active on the forums today, only a couple of hours ago.

Get out here and start hunting.  You've been providing the shortest possible answers to everything and riding an easy vote.  No explanations.  No reasoning.  Nothing.  Cut it out.

Vector:I simply cannot be in your blindspot if you focus a question at me. If it helps you to get a read on me, I would be happy to offer my defense whenever you are ready to start interrogating.

Haha.  Okay, here you go, honey :3

Billybobfred: I do not recall ever interrogating you, so I will make a request. Similarly to those entries you have given for everyone above, I want you to give yourself an objective self-evaluation and add yourself to the wall, end result and all.

Asking someone else to interrogate themselves for you, at this point of the game, is simply lazy.  It allows you to bend whatever they have to say to your whim.  Also permits you to never make any real effort.

I am not attacking your reasoning on any of these individual verdicts (I figure you know what you are doing through experience), but collectively, the chance of something being wrong somewhere is much more likely. None of what I have made bold I find to be especially conclusive, and are the weaker points that I think could be expounded upon to make them believable for the rest of us.

Indirect.  Passive.

While it is true that I am nervous to be among those three to whom you have narrowed down your suspicion (which is understandable, regardless of my alignment), I would like to note that circumventing an argument by simply suggesting that you reassess your list should not be confused with meekly pleading for the same.

Suddenly more italics, and you're telling us what's reasonable in advance.  Here's my reaction, my reaction's reasonable!  But I tried to cover it up, augh, flaiiil~!  Tell me, do you use italics when you're feeling especially emphatic?  Or nervous?  Do your sentences stretch out longer?  Here's a hint: normally, you use two clauses.  Here, when you start being forced to defend yourself, you stretch to three.

I'm getting a strong feeling of dishonesty from you.

I have not come to any decision on who is scum today, so I am not voting.

Go find some.

Honestly, you're playing too passively.  Get your hands dirty.  Attack someone.  Do you think it's going to be any easier to find scum tomorrow?

No.  So get to it.

I'll also note that you haven't responded to Webadict's statement that your behavior is scummy, either, despite posting in the topic.  That's a very bad sign.

Does this theory apply so much in a BM, where the scum are sure to be nervous and among the most suspicious?

This implies that you know none of the ICs are scum, Flandre.

Now, how did you figure that out?

[Reverie]

This is a bad time for the day to end.

[Bdthemag]

Well we can still Extend, since we still seem to have some arguements going on.

[Vector]

Extend.

Indeed.