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[SalmonGod]

Imagine you buy a book, but the author of the book retains the right to destroy your copy of that book any time they choose, on the grounds that they own the information inside it.  It's exactly the same.

This does not quite work. When you purchase a book, you indeed are restricted in what you can do with the story (The copyright-able aspect of the book) (no plagiarism, no derivative work etc). The book as a physical item is your property. They cannot request you to destroy it because it is not theirs (And you can't destroy a story, it is simply a concept). It *might* be possible for them to request that you never read the book again, but I don't think that would (and it shouldn't) go down to well with courts/people.

It's recorded information.  Software is also recorded information.  If permission to read a story was licensed to people with books as just the carrier media (exactly like a disc) then they couldn't destroy your book, but they could censor out the pages with a big black marker or something to make it unreadable.

And no, it wouldn't go down well, but that's the point.

[Meta]

[...]

Also whats up with the people who play the game for ~200 hours, and then decide that they never liked the game? This both confuses and baffles me. Were they expecting the game to change on the 178th hour or something? (This can apply to other games too).

There are many possible reasons for that. Denial, genuinely wanting to like the game and trying again, seeing more and more of its flaws the more they played it?

That's my situation. I played the game for something like 120 hrs, hoping I would find something awesome which would make me love this game as much as D2. It never happened.

This game is just... empty. It lacks a soul.

*goes back to TL2 and BL2*

[Sergius]

Not to mention that a lot of the complaints about Diablo 3 is that you can't really buy it, but in fact that you buy some sort of login client to play on their servers.

So that people complain about it without playing it (because they like, I don't know, owning a game instead of a solo multiplayer game client) is perfectly valid in this case.

To be fair on D3, with software in general you never own the software. You only purchase a licence to use their software.

That's just legal mumbo-jumbo. You own the game as much as you own a record or a painting or a book. The only reason it's a "license" is because some bought judge decided that, not because of some physical aspect of the goods.

It's like that Eminem royalties case. The record label decided purchase via iTunes is a license, because it was in their own interests to restrict "buyers" as much as possible. So the guy sued the label for more money, because "licensing" songs pays better than "shitty % of the sales". And they were all "nuh-huh! it's a SALE, not a LICENSE!" Flip-flopping at its best.

So the next time someone says "you don't own a game" think hard why is that, and who decided it was that way, and how much money was involved. Besides, arguing it from a legal standpoint is kinda like saying that "legally", a game doesn't suck. We're not discussing whether what they're doing is legal or not. It's simply a very hostile action against customers.

+1

Imagine you buy a book, but the author of the book retains the right to destroy your copy of that book any time they choose, on the grounds that they own the information inside it.  It's exactly the same.

It's already happened. Guess what was the name of the book? (however legitimate the reason was)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1984

I also believe that this is basically a pile of crap, but thats just to compare the legal-mumbo-jumbo aspect of D3's login thing, and a normal software licence.

The thing is, Diablo 3's legal status is the same as any other piece of software. That is not the issue. The issue is that, while others "license" games to you, they also give you all the bits that make up the game, so in essence, even if they claim you don't "own" it, you definitely "possess" it. Blizzard only gives you the bits that allow you to connect to their computers, and THOSE have the game Diablo 3 running in them (and it's not even a MMORPG that requires that for obvious reasons).

And many people have a problem with that (not some EULA in a piece of paper), so they're entitled to bitch about it all they want without buying it.

[sambojin]

I know, I know, I really shouldn't post this. I "bought" the game, boxed version and all.

Licensing is a funny old thing. If a class action was bought to bear, where 90% of the license holders truly wished something done, and the original concept was only held and licensed out, the license holders have right of use, and right of way.

It has happened in something before. I don't think it took 90% either.

So....... Back to the game?

1.05 thoughts? Go, kick-arse witchdoctors, potentially kickarse (now with a proper summon-tank helper) DH's, and bollocks to you double-tornado barbs. Suck it muscle boys.

[Robosaur]

I can neither beat Beelzebub Inferno, nor survive in Act III Inferno even slightly. What should I do?

[nenjin]

I can neither beat Beelzebub Inferno, nor survive in Act III Inferno even slightly. What should I do?

Grind Act 2 Inferno until can you succeed or give up trying and /wrists.

[Nadaka]

Not to mention that a lot of the complaints about Diablo 3 is that you can't really buy it, but in fact that you buy some sort of login client to play on their servers.

So that people complain about it without playing it (because they like, I don't know, owning a game instead of a solo multiplayer game client) is perfectly valid in this case.

To be fair on D3, with software in general you never own the software. You only purchase a licence to use their software.

That's just legal mumbo-jumbo. You own the game as much as you own a record or a painting or a book. The only reason it's a "license" is because some bought judge decided that, not because of some physical aspect of the goods.

It's like that Eminem royalties case. The record label decided purchase via iTunes is a license, because it was in their own interests to restrict "buyers" as much as possible. So the guy sued the label for more money, because "licensing" songs pays better than "shitty % of the sales". And they were all "nuh-huh! it's a SALE, not a LICENSE!" Flip-flopping at its best.

So the next time someone says "you don't own a game" think hard why is that, and who decided it was that way, and how much money was involved. Besides, arguing it from a legal standpoint is kinda like saying that "legally", a game doesn't suck. We're not discussing whether what they're doing is legal or not. It's simply a very hostile action against customers.

+1

Imagine you buy a book, but the author of the book retains the right to destroy your copy of that book any time they choose, on the grounds that they own the information inside it.  It's exactly the same.

Its actually more like this: imagine you buy a book. But the author has to cast a magic spell every day to keep the ink from disappearing. One day, he might run out of mana, or trade his witch doctor mask of +5% diablo 3 server uptime for something that produces more DPS (dollars per second), or he could respec to a whole other build, or he could die because he is a hardcore character.

[Darkmere]

See previous pages... and that's my point. Copyright derails and MMO rants and blah blah. I'm not sure where the whole internet hate conspiracy came from, but if troll logic is what works, don't give up the dream.

I just don't understand what's supposed to be gained by repeatedly coming here to make sure everyone knows how much you (the general you) hate the game, as if this is the first product that's ever failed to meet some particular expectations? It's not like Blizzard is going to come here and decide to remake everything because the 15000th "AH is bad, bobby kotick" post on the internet hit a cap on a pledge counter.

There was even a thread specifically made for ranting about the game, but it's more satisfying to come here instead, because... why?

[Neonivek]

The reason games are given as licenses, except not really except when it is convenient, is mostly because they don't want you to make copies.

A book doesn't have the same issues.

[Sergius]

See previous pages... and that's my point. Copyright derails and MMO rants and blah blah. I'm not sure where the whole internet hate conspiracy came from, but if troll logic is what works, don't give up the dream.

Yes, yes, you've noted repeatedly how much you won't tolerate anything bad said about Diablo 3, and how you're putting your foot down and all that, and how everyone who complains doesn't play the game or plays the game a million hours then says it sucks, and other strawmen to knock down, and that everyone should get off your lawn.

You also are the first to jump into the ad-hom bandwagon, trying to insult the posters instead of addressing the comments.

We get it. We must all pretend the problems with Diablo 3 don't exist. Good man.

[Neonivek]

It isn't like I put my thumbs into my ears and wen't "No there is nothing good about Diablo 3"

When I said its story was hillariously bad... I meant it. It could easily be made into a Parody of the diablo series. I certainly laughed a good solid hour at certain points.

Along with this the game has strong hints of a deeper strategy that just never came to be. The fact that you COULD turn the Mage into a close range fighter, even though that wouldn't be a good idea, tells of a time in development that has long since passed. Heck there was such a wide variety of skills I expected every single one had its use... but it ended up being that you could toss out over half the moves of any class and remove 90% of the runes.

Plus until after Nightmare there was genuin skill involved where just playing your character the best he could be played was fruitful and where "Kiting" wasn't the strategy for every enemy in the game. As well while there was grinding it wasn't required on Nightmare. It was only the difficulty after Nightmare where Grinding became very important and being outdated could mean you were useless.

Plus some of the bosses were genuinly fun and actually had a learning curve for all characters. (while others were almost made to give certain classes a hard time)

Diablo 3 is definately a game that I feel wants to be a good game... but someone slapped it in the face and went "Ohh no you don't! you will be profitable and mediocre and like it!"

[Sergius]

Besides, I don't know where the misguided notion that this thread is the Diablo 3 praise/gameplay tips/enjoyment thread. This thread has covered everything since the news that the game was being planned, to include everything smart/stupid/cool/uncool the developers said in interviews, the reactions of people at the realization that it was going to be a server-side game, to the experiences of people playing it, to personal reviews of the game of people who liked/disliked/hated it, of people who didn't want to buy it for X reason.

Deciding now that this isn't the "Diablo 3 hate" thread so that people with bad comments should just move out of Amuhrica is just revisionism at its best, and so is "uh, there's another thread that's about Diablo 3 bashing, take it over there!". And conspiracy theories about how "legitimate" posts about the game are being shushed/shoved under the carpet by the "illegitimate" posts complaining about the game... man, I don't even know where to start.

[Darkmere]

lengthy post

What am I supposed to be defending? The game is what the game is, and I understand people don't like it. I won't waste time attempting to justify something that I didn't create. My point was (and you illustrated it pretty well, thanks) that those of us who do enjoy it are just here to be the targets of angst directed at blizzard for their design decisions.

Or was that just to set me up as a fanboy strawman?

For what it's worth, I think the past few patches have done a great deal to make the game better and more accessible difficulty- and progression-wise. All-defense cookie cutter specs are out, gear variance is up, skill viability is up, legendaries are differentiated and useful (and I find them even on Act 1 inferno with my base 25% magic find characters). I self-found enough upgrades to get my barbarian through all of inferno.

I've said it before here but clearly FANBOY LOL so I guess it bears repeating. The main story is embarassingly bad, the side stories are actually fairly decent. I haven't had server stability issues in the ... well I can't remember when. Crafting still needs a big buff, and some character customization with the old talisman wouldn't be bad. Being forced to farm A3 got tiresome, but the monster power scalar in the next patch should alleviate that. I actually like everyone being online-only because it removes the blatantly hacked gear and townkilling/griefing shit from the old games.

What points did I miss?

P.s. Demon hunters getting multiple turrets next patch sounds fun as hell.

[nenjin]

My point was (and you illustrated it pretty well, thanks) that those of us who do enjoy it are just here to be the targets of angst directed at blizzard for their design decisions.

The personal nature of debates aside, I don't agree with you. People are directing their angst at the game. People who like it and self-identify with the game as they defend it are making themselves into targets of said angst.

Ex:

"The game sucks."

"Well, I like the game, ergo, you must be saying I suck! Now let me defend myself in how I don't suck by defending how the game doesn't suck."

[Darkmere]

But by that logic, the thread made specifically to rant against the game should have thrived, and it sits buried somewhere way on down in the forum. Instead "sweet, I made money playing a game I enjoy" is met with "you should be ashamed."