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[SalmonGod]

Do tell me what I'm missing. And try and say it without referencing "avoiding dying", something we argueably should have been doing in the first difficulty but didn't have to.

That was glorious, thank you.  It also ruined my chances of ever being able to take this game seriously, which were slim anyway

There's two things I don't like about this game.

First, there's Blizzards horribly anti-consumer policies.  I've talked plenty about those (always online/making mods illegal).

Second, they've taken out all the reason I ever had for playing an ARPG.  I don't play them to feel like a demi-god that can make uber-monsters explode with a menacing glance.  I don't play them to look up cookie cutter builds and follow directions.  I don't play them to try and unlock my own perfect munchkin formula.  I don't play them for the story. 

I play them for the thrill of getting lucky finding an interesting item once in a while.  I play them for the challenge of staying alive in hardcore mode without paying any attention to min/maxing.  I start a character in hardcore and improvise everything about my character on the fly.  I don't plan anything about my "build" in advance.  I put points wherever I feel like it at the time and use whatever drops that seems interesting.  I don't trade items between characters.  I only trade with players that I meet in the game by chance.  I enjoy getting to know the feel of how that unique character plays.  Eventually it dies and I enjoy moving on and doing something new again.  In Diablo 2, every character I played was a unique experience, even if they were a class I'd played 10 times before.  I would end up finding completely different stuff (which mattered a whole lot more when basic attacks were the default form of combat and mana-depleting abilities actually had to be rationed), combined with trying a different set of point allocations that made the experience of playing that character unique due to being stuck with those decisions.

Diablo 3 basically removed all the appeal of my freeform style of play.  I would go in with a new character and suffer through the dullness of normal mode (it doesn't deserve the word difficulty attached to it).  Somewhere around the end of normal mode, I would have unlocked all of my character's abilities, and there would be nothing to look forward to but unlocking slight variations to those abilities.  I would fiddle around with all of those abilities for a few minutes each and then have no reason to continue playing or ever play that class again, before even hitting half of max level.  They made equipment the only semi-lasting form of character customization, and they even cheapened that with the auction house.  You can get any equipment in the game with little effort and obliterate all their content with a minimum of enjoyable gameplay process involved.  I just don't understand the appeal.  Yeah, I can just opt out of things like the auction house, but it still cheapens the enjoyability of the experience to basically have a "finish game" button available to me the entire time that I'm playing.

Unless they somehow end up pulling some very satisfying PvP out of their asses or putting out expansion content very frequently, I would be surprised if this game isn't completely dead within two years.

[nenjin]

That was glorious, thank you.  It also ruined my chances of ever being able to take this game seriously, which were slim anyway

It really underscore how little they cared about balance, challenge or anything having to do with normal mode. If a single gem increasing your damage 200% - 300% wasn't a powerful enough indicator already.

[pilgrimboy]

I would actually say that if you got 30 hours in a game, it was worth its money.

We're talking about how much of something you have to play before you're allowed to have an opinion on it. I don't think anyone mentioned value for money? Also quantity isn't quality.

I just don't know why one would play thirty hours if they weren't enjoying it.

[Sordid]

I just don't know why one would play thirty hours if they weren't enjoying it.

Perhaps they kept playing because they hoped it would get really good later? Diablo is a bit like MMOs, the game doesn't really properly start until you reach the endgame, or in the case of Diablo the highest difficulty. Hell, it took me 170 hours to figure out that Test Drive Unlimited 2 is shit.

[nenjin]

I just don't know why one would play thirty hours if they weren't enjoying it.

Perhaps they kept playing because they hoped it would get really good later? Diablo is a bit like MMOs, the game doesn't really properly start until you reach the endgame, or in the case of Diablo the highest difficulty. Hell, it took me 170 hours to figure out that Test Drive Unlimited 2 is shit.

This. And I have many friends who wanted to play it. I went back to Act 1 several times to play with people or power level them through teh "boring" part of the game to the "interesting" part. I played solo so I could actually listen to the lore bits.

If people weren't trying to pigeon hole me into the ultimate hater, or actually keeping track of this convo, they'd see me praise the game for what it's doing right. (Which are things beneath the bigger questions like "long-term viability?" and "balanced?!")

It's hack and slash fun. But that's all it is. From a company as wealthy as Blizzard, who have been working on this thing for 5+ years at least....."just hack 'n slash fun" doesn't sound like a winner, like something people will play for long, or that it even came close to meeting the hype.

But I guess that's only worth caring about if you're willing to think about the things you buy, instead of saying "I had fun for some amount of time, it was totally worth it."

[Lumbajak]

Am I late?

[nenjin]

No, I think you're right on time.

[SalmonGod]

That was glorious, thank you.  It also ruined my chances of ever being able to take this game seriously, which were slim anyway

It really underscore how little they cared about balance, challenge or anything having to do with normal mode. If a single gem increasing your damage 200% - 300% wasn't a powerful enough indicator already.

I have a friend who made a hardcore character, just because they wanted to see what happened when a hardcore character died.  They made the character and just stood next to the first monster they saw.  It couldn't kill him... so he stood next to two monsters... then three... three monsters couldn't kill him, if he just stood next to them.  He finally just ran on until the first elite mob to get himself killed.  That level of hand-holding is more than a little ridiculous.

[Ivefan]

I just don't know why one would play thirty hours if they weren't enjoying it.

Perhaps they kept playing because they hoped it would get really good later? Diablo is a bit like MMOs, the game doesn't really properly start until you reach the endgame, or in the case of Diablo the highest difficulty. Hell, it took me 170 hours to figure out that Test Drive Unlimited 2 is shit.

Yeah. Usually I play a game till my interest fades. But with Diablo 3 Rather than fading into disinterest it turned to dissatisfaction. And looking back on my time played I realize that it was that i played LAN with friends that made it fun, not D3.

[hemmingjay]

That was glorious, thank you.  It also ruined my chances of ever being able to take this game seriously, which were slim anyway

It really underscore how little they cared about balance, challenge or anything having to do with normal mode. If a single gem increasing your damage 200% - 300% wasn't a powerful enough indicator already.

I have a friend who made a hardcore character, just because they wanted to see what happened when a hardcore character died.  They made the character and just stood next to the first monster they saw.  It couldn't kill him... so he stood next to two monsters... then three... three monsters couldn't kill him, if he just stood next to them.  He finally just ran on until the first elite mob to get himself killed.  That level of hand-holding is more than a little ridiculous.

Your logic is silly at best. Most games have that level of "handholding" in the first scene. This game has enough problems of merit without trolling absently.

[nenjin]

Care to watch the nekkid barbarian video? Or is the whole game up to the Skeleton King still part of the tutorial?

[fenrif]

That was glorious, thank you.  It also ruined my chances of ever being able to take this game seriously, which were slim anyway

It really underscore how little they cared about balance, challenge or anything having to do with normal mode. If a single gem increasing your damage 200% - 300% wasn't a powerful enough indicator already.

I have a friend who made a hardcore character, just because they wanted to see what happened when a hardcore character died.  They made the character and just stood next to the first monster they saw.  It couldn't kill him... so he stood next to two monsters... then three... three monsters couldn't kill him, if he just stood next to them.  He finally just ran on until the first elite mob to get himself killed.  That level of hand-holding is more than a little ridiculous.

Your logic is silly at best. Most games have that level of "handholding" in the first scene. This game has enough problems of merit without trolling absently.

It's not trolling for someone to have a different opinion about a game than you dude. Yeah a lot of games (though definatly not all) have over easy starting areas, but that doesn't mean everyone has to like that. And it certainly doesn't mean that anyone who has a problem with it should have to keep quiet about it for fear of being called a silly troll.

It's been a while since I've played them, but were the previous 2 Diablo games unlosable in the first area? I'm fairly certain D2 wasn't...

[hemmingjay]

I would enjoy watching you play a nekkid barbarian up to Skeleton King. I find it hilarious that this game has provided enough entertainment for you to continually fill this thread with disdain for the game. I commend your devotion to this topic. It's really a comment on the gaming community as a whole how many gamers now feel compelled to complain publicly rather than go about their business. Honestly, it's fascinating.
His opinion was not trolling, his intentional disregard for the vast history of gaming(initial 40 seconds of almost every game ever had the same thing) and to bash a game he has not played is indeed trolling.

If his friend had taken 10 more steps to the gates he would have been torn apart in 45 seconds while standing still. Can we not agree to judge a game on at least a full minute of gameplay if not actually playing it?

We don't have to agree with each other, we just have to be reasonable.

[Briggsy16]

Finally, someone on my level of thinking.

[fenrif]

There's a video posted with the naked barbarian to skeleton king thing. The point being you can complete the first boss of hte game with no items or loot by just whittling his health down while he uselessly does nothing.

I do seriously love the idea that people talking about a game are somehow losers or wierd. I guess all those art/literature/film critics throught history are just trolls. You yourself admit the game has many problems but for some reason you have a problem with anyone ex[ressing criticism of a game because you personally enjoy it. Methinks you're the truer representation of gaming culture.

And again, the idea that people should just "go about their buisness" instead of talking about something is laughable. This is the reason so many people have trouble identifying games as an art form. Art invites criticism. For some reason games and gamers shy away from it like it's the enemy.

Response to your edit: the video nenjin posted shows 4 guys beating the skeleton king with what seems to be very little difficulty using no items or loot. This isn't the first 40 seconds of the game.