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[Neonivek]

Just stick with Melee classes. Unless balanced or something HUGE changes... the melee classes seem to have things a lot easier then the ranged (excluding the Witchdoctor who only has trouble against a few bosses but has a much easier time)

Though this is because they really didn't think out balance too much when you hit multiplayer. The melee classes are about killing off an enemy before they can kill them (so they have huge fonts of defence and damage) while the ranged classes seem to be based on avoiding damage while dealing less. It isn't so bad Single player because you will kill everything easily anyway.

Mind you I could be bitter because I've played for over 24 (its in the 30s now) hours and I am really really sick of it but I'll be made to play it for another ton of gametime. With a mage who is a late-bloomer.

[Darkmere]

@LASD
Yeah, if you want to know about gameplay, from people who are playing the game....

From someone who played D2 a ton, through all 3 difficulties, and modded...

The gameplay is very polished and refined. It's shorter than D2, without the mind-killing drudgery that D2 had. Every area is unique and visually interesting. If you're at all interested and know people who are at all interested, buy it. Multiplayer is a real gem. The difficulty ramps up nicely as the game progresses, and I felt the "difficulty change bump" when I started nightmare.

Anything specific you want to know?

[LASD]

"Okay, this sounds like I just don't want to hear anything bad about the game, but mostly what annoys me is people that haven't played the game bashing on it for pages on end"

Played it, do you want my gameplay criticisms? Because honestly the MOST fun I had playing Diablo 3 was laughing at its terrible story. It litterally is the highlight of the entire game. That IS me talking about the Gameplay.

Litterally the gameplay of Diablo 3 was enhanced because I knew when I went back to town something dumb would happen.

Yeah, it is absolutely valid to complain if you've played the game. Just after I put that edit out, I noticed it was a bit dumb, because what I really meant was people that vowed never to play the game at all.

Also, you're right that "Gameplay Discussion" might not be that good a name for the thread, but at least it conveys that it has to do with things that happen inside the game.

[3]

D2 added two classes, charms, rune, Magic Gems, and a few extra items as well as a final act of which only 1/4th was any good as well as a new final boss inferior to the old one.

I'm not sure how well you remember D1 but this is a serious understatement. I'd even argue that there are more differences in design between D1 and D2 than there are between D2 and D3.

[Astral]

I dunno. Witchdoctor was a bit of a pain to level up with, but I've recently hit Nightmare (and level 40) and most of the content is a joke. Run around, hitting things with DoTs that spread to different targets (and grant mana when they spread), kite them around the 80% slow AoE, and hit one with a spirit that will spread when the enemy dies. As far as a boss goes, I might change out my skills slightly, but I have the Gargantuan that enrages, increasing its damage by 200% and its attack speed by a bit, throwing out damage over times and running away when appropriate. Plus, the enrage apparently resets if you resummon it, meaning if it dies during a fight while tanking for you, the new one will have that lovely, lovely buff.

Also, Witchdoctor in particular seems to scale insanely well. I'm hitting around 1500 weapon damage with Soul Harvest with mediocre gear. I'm theorycrafting on a build that would boost that even higher.

Sure, the melee classes have more survivability, especially early game, but I find the Witchdoctor more enjoyable because it requires a modicum of thought into its skill build and playstyle. Rather than, you know, running up and left clicking things until they die. I'm still squishy as hell, even with the passive that grants 20% damage reduction base, though.

I suppose my main enjoyment out of the game at this point is akin to what Diablo 2 and the Median XL mod was: Get shinies, do damage, and just get stronger, play better, etc.

[Neonivek]

D2 added two classes, charms, rune, Magic Gems, and a few extra items as well as a final act of which only 1/4th was any good as well as a new final boss inferior to the old one.

I'm not sure how well you remember D1 but this is a serious understatement. I'd even argue that there are more differences in design between D1 and D2 than there are between D2 and D3.

I was refering to the difference between D2 and D2 expansion.

The person was complaining that people were shooting D3 down because it wasn't as good as D2+expansion. I was just saying that D2 wasn't that bad off without it.

Also no there are more significant differences between D2 and D3 then between D1 and D2... in just design philosophy. D2 was their attempt to elevate the game. D3 is their attempt to trim it down and streamline it to the extent where it loses entire gameplay elements. Plus D2 at least tried to keep the game's story at least somewhere in the ballpark as the first. The third just made up whatever the heck it wanted as a story.

[forsaken1111]

Sorry everyone, I was too busy throwing jars of goddamn spiders at goddamn demons.

brb spiderbombing demons some more.

[Neonivek]

Sorry everyone, I was too busy throwing jars of goddamn spiders at goddamn demons.

brb spiderbombing demons some more.

Psh for now. You are just going to switch to giant frogs anyway.

[forsaken1111]

Sorry everyone, I was too busy throwing jars of goddamn spiders at goddamn demons.

brb spiderbombing demons some more.

Psh for now. You are just going to switch to giant frogs anyway.

Maybe.

Zombie dogs are awesome.

[3]

I was refering to the difference between D2 and D2 expansion.

Yeah, I obviously misunderstood you there.

Also no there are more significant differences between D2 and D3 then between D1 and D2... in just design philosophy. D2 was their attempt to elevate the game. D3 is their attempt to trim it down and streamline it to the extent where it loses entire gameplay elements.

I totally disagree. I mean to say, the change in design philosophy is probably the only change that's more significant.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

D1:
- Attacking is one basic action/skill
- Difference between the classes is mostly statistical (I don't mean just in the sense of attributes, but it's numbers regardless)
- Spells learned via books
- Little character customization possible, some via attribute allocation
- Emphasis on smart, cautious play

D2:
- Attacks/spells/skills rolled up into class-dependent trees
- Attributes mostly retained from D1 (but not updated properly to match new system anyway)
- Socket system etc. allows for more customization (in theory)
- Shift in feel and atmosphere
- Emphasis on gear and character building

D3:
- Class-dependent skills retained, trees replaced
- Attribute system changed, attributes now meaningful, now based on socketing and item use
- Another shift in feel and atmosphere
- Continued emphasis on gear/farming/etc. encouraged by cash auction etc.

Seems pretty obvious to me that Blizzard are drawing more influence from D2 than they are from D1. But does that really come as a surprise to anyone?

And I don't mean any offense, but make sure you're not conflating "change" with "bad". Your language makes it look as if you're saying D3 removed gameplay elements and therefore made bigger changes... while D2 added elements that were just as significant to D1.

[sambojin]

Whew, just made the kill on the skelly king with about 50 seconds to go on server shutdown. Didn't even see what I got from my drops.

Of course, now it's saying that I don't have a diablo 3 account on that username (server error 12) but I'll just assume that it's the server being down that's the problem.

[hemmingjay]

when I did my first playthrough I geared my character for magic find and used that to get great starter gear for the other classes. I would suggest the same to others as well as dumping your first 10k gold into buying more storage, so you can fully gear up your next chars. Then I would spend every bit of gold levelling blacksmith(not much use at tier one but 2 and 3 are good once you hit lvl 15-24 or so and on from there. Making your own equipment is often a great choice for certain level ranges.

[hemmingjay]

this was worth it's own post. For those who said the game is dumbed down or doesn't have enough customization.........

repost from somewhere else:

In elective mode there are 756 different active skill combinations for every class (126 skills X 6 Slots)... and that's not including any passive combinations added in. There are 42 passive skill combinations for each class (14 Skills X 3 slots). And yes most runes turn skills into a completely different thing so they do count.

756 x 42 =  31752 possible skill combinations for every class.

The system has definately not been dumbed down. The numbers don't lie...

[KaelGotDwarves]

Actual game discussion ahoy:

I was a pretty long time fan of D1 and D2, and after hearing about various changes that have been meticulously debated in this thread, I was hesitant to buy it. Ended up caving for various reasons, but that's neither here nor there.

However, here are my impressions after making it into Hell difficulty:

Yes, the story is pretty bad, pretty generic, and the "twists" you see coming from miles away. The quest names even give away what is about to happen in the storyline. If you're a real lore fanatic, best not think too hard about it.

The game, for better or worse - is "streamlined". This means things like tp and id scrolls are out, and you merely press a button to warp to town as long as you are not under attack. You don't distribute your character's stat points, instead it's based on character class and much more item dependent.

Your weapon damage means everything... EVERYTHING. Spell damage is now tied to weapons, meaning that if you aren't geared up properly, you're in for a bad time, or at least slower time. Always get a better weapon.

I tried every class. None is as broken as the monk. Buff and heal the entire team, and get several in a group? Welcome to never die town! Normal difficulty was a joke. Bosses that tore me and my friends to shreds with other classes in nightmare and hell (I'm looking at you goddamn purple laser/desolation/molten bosses) were suddenly manageable with team heals and party wide buffs.

And how are they so broke? Well, with skills like Transcendence which is arguably the best passive in the game (heals for a stupid amount when you spend spirit, which you get for hitting things), and the fact that their stat -dexterity- for damage also gives them incredible survivability (dodge) and synergy with another passive like "Seize the Initiative" (for massive armor) you can tank with the class that is supposedly a glass cannon. Just stack dex items.

And the whole point of diablo has always been hitting harder and faster, and that's essentially what the monk does. You can stunlock 99% of mobs around you, gaining resource spirit energy, and then blow everything away.

I don't want to turn this into a monk supremacy rant, but the whole point for bringing this up is what I spent a lot of my D2 hundreds of hours on... pvp.

I simply don't see how Diablo3 can be balanced for pvp while maintaining pve balance. "One with everything"? Just stack one resist and take negative damage. There are other skills that stunlock forever. No bueno.

The witchdoctor is a class that I was iffy on at first, as I want my necromancers back, but ended up being one of the most fun to play.

The Auction house is a pretty cool addition. I can't speak for the Real Money Auction House (tm) that doesn't launch until next week, but the current AH, when it works, is great. It makes a game about finding loot really about OCD finding the perfect gear.

I had more fun with the Act2 boss battle than Act4, but Act4 was pretty awesome. A total dream come true.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You storm Heaven.

Also, the "hidden level" is absolutely hilarious.

I just got out from another night of playing and it's almost 6am, so I'm going to leave with that semi-coherent rant.

But seriously, monks are too ridiculously good/have much more utility in relation to the other classes. Try them.

[fenrif]

this was worth it's own post. For those who said the game is dumbed down or doesn't have enough customization.........

repost from somewhere else:

In elective mode there are 756 different active skill combinations for every class (126 skills X 6 Slots)... and that's not including any passive combinations added in. There are 42 passive skill combinations for each class (14 Skills X 3 slots). And yes most runes turn skills into a completely different thing so they do count.

756 x 42 =  31752 possible skill combinations for every class.

The system has definately not been dumbed down. The numbers don't lie...

Why are the number of skills being multiplied by the slots they can go in? Do the skills change depending on what slot they're put in? :S