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A) Open Warfare: Shoot them as soon as we can.

15 (48.4%)

B) Cold War: Establish borders, and try to out-grow them.

16 (51.6%)

C) No War: Let's share the solar system.... For now.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 31

[Azkul]

Making sensor weight proportional to fuel capacity, rather than warhead weight may or may not* be better.




*commitment

[Daltesh]

I think the entire purpose of the nerf is to keep missiles from being the primary weapon. It puts them in a mostly support role for beam armed ships, acting as weapons to use while closing to engagement range before you can use your actual weapons, rather than weapons to build your fleet around.

I don't support it because I think Aurora shouldn't have missiles. I support it because I think this scenario should have far less missile involvement to make it more interesting and less 'And then mercury/titan was destroyed by ten thousand size-1 missiles and the  game effectively ended.' You can fit a lot of size 1 box launchers on a 15KT ship.

[Azkul]

If the problem is with planetary bombardment, maybe a rule could be enforced in which planets can only be bombarded if the launching ships are in orbit of the planet?

[Daltesh]

I believe Sheb stated that even if he banned missiles he might allow planetary bombs. I think the problem he sees with missiles is that they completely dominate combat in Aurora (which they do) and reduce the tactical options available to you. If he nerfed missiles in a way which still left them as a clear choice as a primary armament, it wouldn't be nerfed enough.

I do think that somehow reducing the tech costs would be a fair balance though. Or at least offer both sides some basic missile technology to get us off the ground.

[a1s]

'And then mercury/titan was destroyed by ten thousand size-1 missiles and the  game effectively ended.' You can fit a lot of size 1 box launchers on a 15KT ship.

As much as I'd like to dream of sneak attacking the Heathens with NUKLA BOMBS, it's actually never going to happen. The nerf is mostly to improve the viability of "beam" weapons.
To that end we should send a Diplomatic team, and establish an embassy. We must also
a)tell them (duh- they'll shoot us out of the sky otherwise).
b) send several espionage teams with our diplomatic team.
c)This is a task for Sheb, because we don't have the data on hand: set the speed* of our ambassadorial vessel such that it would intersect the orbit of either Earth or Mars when the planet is there. Drop 1 of the spy teams on it.




Also, I would like to express extreme dissatisfaction with how MIRV is handled, if it puts ballast at 75%.

[MonkeyHead]

c)This is a task for Sheb, because we don't have the data on hand: set the speed* of our ambassadorial vessel such that it would intersect the orbit of either Earth or Mars when the planet is there. Drop 1 of the spy teams on it.

I really like this idea... why not both? or the moon? Possibly a silly noob question, but how easy would it be to sneak some kind of big gun base onto any of the 3, preferably the moon?

[a1s]

c)This is a task for Sheb, because we don't have the data on hand: set the speed* of our ambassadorial vessel such that it would intersect the orbit of either Earth or Mars when the planet is there. Drop 1 of the spy teams on it.

I really like this idea... why not both? or the moon? Possibly a silly noob question, but how easy would it be to sneak some kind of big gun base onto any of the 3, preferably the moon?

Very. You'd need a freighter, and those are about as noticeable as a phosphorescent cat in a well lit room.

[Daltesh]

We are presumably not too happy about the Mercurians, who I remind you actually went so far as to render the holy land inhospitable for centuries. Establishing a diplomatic embassy is out of the question, not only for being cowardly, but for being a boring way to conduct an LP considering the back story involved and how it is set up.

I would honestly like this LP to involve multiple skirmishes over a few years escalating into a series of wars that end with invaders coming and destroying everything, but they're turned off so we won't have that.

That said, I am wholly against establishing any lasting peace until the heathens are nothing but a memory, and slowly expanding radioactive vapor.

[a1s]

Wait, so you're against a proper war, but you're also against peace? Make up your mind for Muhamed's sake! 

It might be hard to drop a base on the moon, but we could send a "slow boat" (single-engine freighter set to have a thermal signature of, like 50 or whatever is reasonable) to one of the asteroids with some sensor equipment (DSTS has no electronic signature, and, if I'm not mistaken 5 heat signature points per level- they'll never find it.). That will give us a good idea of what's going on in the system core.

[Felius]

c)This is a task for Sheb, because we don't have the data on hand: set the speed* of our ambassadorial vessel such that it would intersect the orbit of either Earth or Mars when the planet is there. Drop 1 of the spy teams on it.

I really like this idea... why not both? or the moon? Possibly a silly noob question, but how easy would it be to sneak some kind of big gun base onto any of the 3, preferably the moon?

Very. You'd need a freighter, and those are about as noticeable as a phosphorescent cat in a well lit room.

Considering how many trips it might take, I'd say it's more like a bright lamp in a otherwise dark room. That said, I guess it might be possible if we did obscene stealth and emission reduction research.

[Daltesh]

Wait, so you're against a proper war, but you're also against peace? Make up your mind for Muhamed's sake! 

I'm against total war right now because we don't have any clear way to reach ultimate victory with the forces we have. We have a single troop carrier, so there's no way we could actually occupy Mercury even if we did manage to defeat their navy with whatever forces we have.

I have the habit of typing out long spiels and then deleting them to try and be more concise, so sometimes I forget to mention something which I meant to; but I'll try and clarify on this point. If it weren't for the fact that people voted for a cold war, I would fully support using our Gunboats for commerce interdiction. They're hard to spot and can likely outrun any enemy naval forces that come into contact with them. Especially if I got the engine upgrades I want! Basically I'm a fan of limited warfare and skirmishes devoted to their theater without dragging the entire solar system into it. We shouldn't charge at mercury the first time they send a naval detachment to Jupiter, and I hope they wouldn't do the same should we trespass into the inner system.

Of course I could totally be wrong, I'm just trying to see that this game turns out fun. And really, mysterious PDCs that might be able to shoot giant lasers at us scares me. For all I know they could out range us by a gigantic margin and be able to blast our fleets apart while we try and close.

[a1s]

I would fully support using our Gunboats for commerce interdiction. They're hard to spot and can likely outrun any enemy naval forces that come into contact with them.

Interdiction might be seen as direct provocation, but we could maybe send a probe (small ship, big (biggest one we have, not any new ad hoc model) sensor, no weapons) and find out what their specialty is? (they might have fighters instead of gunboats, in which case we won't outrun anyone)

That said, how hard would it be to establish a small base (maintenance+fuel supplies) for our gunships in the asteroid belt? It would protect that listening post from a few asteroids away and we'd have a mobile reserve on the Infidel doorstep.

[Daltesh]

Yes, it would be a direct provocation. And they would be able to fly their entire fleet to Titan to fight what we have of our defense fleet plus our PDCs, while leaving their home open for our interdiction units to probe, or they could split their forces to protect their home and attack us which would let us most likely destroy the attacking forces and recover plenty of salvage.

At first I was going to complain about an asteroid belt eventually having the inner system between us and it due to our orbit, but it seems Saturn has an orbital period of thirty years.. So it would eventually become a problem, but it wouldn't be an immediate one by any means.

If my warmongering is getting annoying, well remember, the majority rules so you guys can just ignore me. But I don't want to see this turn into a really long game of 'build up a lot and never fight' considering the backstory we were given. They invaded our forefathers! They stole Allah's gift and subverted it for their corrupt purposes! They nearly wiped out humanity. No, I do not think we should be chummy with them, or even contemplate peace. The Mercurians are a blight upon the universe and they must be cleansed.. Once we have a way to actually cleanse them, that is. We might want to build more ground troops, if we spend all our time on engineers they might have twice as many assaults as we do and that would be Bad considering how this seems set up.

But if I'm actually annoying you guys I'm sorry. I really did sign up for this thread so I'm not quite sure what level of etiquette and decorum is called for. That's what not lurking enough gets me.

That said, Go space Muslims.

[a1s]

The second point about interdiction is that our enemies are heavily centralized- Mercury is their castle mine and workshop, outside of exploratory expeditions there's no one to interdict, really. But I think we should establish a beachhead anyway. In fact I think I will add this to our orders:

Spoiler: orders (click to show/hide)

Orders:
Space Orders:
When the new Mosul finishes it should join its friend in surveying the Oort Cloud. If an infidel ship approaches Saturn it should be first warned off and then destroyed by Hufufs with sensor support.
Industrial Orders:
Assign 63% of industry to Construction Factories, and 37% to 4 Deep Space Tracking Stations. (This should ensure we finish two during the year)
Research Orders:
Continue current projects, making sure our most powerful scientist (al-Azred currently) always has max. labs . Once Research Rate 280 finishes, research construction rate 12,  construction rate 14, mining rate 12, then work on Missile sensor (size 2, resolution 14), missile launcher (size 2), Gun-type fission warhead (strength 2), then improved missile drives up to nuclear pulse, If all that finishes, work on Mining Rate 14.
Our other scientist should work on Jump point theory and then gravitational sensors.
Other Orders:
If we finish grav sensors develop a Grav survey version of the Mosul and build one. This will be a military ship, so add engineering spaces as needed.
pick 2 asteroids close to Saturn- asteroid #1 is the closest to Saturn, asteroid #2 is a few asteroids clockwise from there.
Load 1 DSTS on a Jizzan, load maintenance stations for 200 tons, set a course for the asteroid #1, go half-way at full speed then drop speed as appropriate*. Drop DSTS on #1, and head for #2, drop maintenance there, drop excess (keep as much fuel as we already spent) fuel there, go to Titan, continue delivering maintenance stations and fuel to #2 until we have sufficient maintenance support there (3 trips, I'm guessing).
At the same time, load the Ashod with a full attack wing (9 hufhus+Mersin), deploy to #2 with stealth*. remain while Jizzan is making trips. Drop off attack wing and excess fuel (keep as much fuel as we already spent +10%), Go home.
Standing orders: Attack wing must interdict all ship traffic satisfying both conditions:
a) within 25Mkm of ateroid #1
b) estimated trajectory will take them within 5Mkm of either asteroid (this is a ballpark figure for the local force commander, if you're not sure wheather it's 4.5 or 5.5 Mkm-attack).
(*) assume 625 Planetary sensor strength.

[Bremen]

Yes, it would be a direct provocation. And they would be able to fly their entire fleet to Titan to fight what we have of our defense fleet plus our PDCs, while leaving their home open for our interdiction units to probe, or they could split their forces to protect their home and attack us which would let us most likely destroy the attacking forces and recover plenty of salvage.

At first I was going to complain about an asteroid belt eventually having the inner system between us and it due to our orbit, but it seems Saturn has an orbital period of thirty years.. So it would eventually become a problem, but it wouldn't be an immediate one by any means.

If my warmongering is getting annoying, well remember, the majority rules so you guys can just ignore me. But I don't want to see this turn into a really long game of 'build up a lot and never fight' considering the backstory we were given. They invaded our forefathers! They stole Allah's gift and subverted it for their corrupt purposes! They nearly wiped out humanity. No, I do not think we should be chummy with them, or even contemplate peace. The Mercurians are a blight upon the universe and they must be cleansed.. Once we have a way to actually cleanse them, that is. We might want to build more ground troops, if we spend all our time on engineers they might have twice as many assaults as we do and that would be Bad considering how this seems set up.

But if I'm actually annoying you guys I'm sorry. I really did sign up for this thread so I'm not quite sure what level of etiquette and decorum is called for. That's what not lurking enough gets me.

That said, Go space Muslims.

The problem with that is attacking Mercury is also the end of the LP, for better or worse. Like I kept trying to say in my LP, there is a middle ground between universal peace and smiles and a direct assault on a homeworld.

As for what to interdict, as was pointed out all the survey points are beyond the asteroid belt. We could try to contain them in the Solar system while we expand; Plus, once we have an offworld colony the threat of nuclear retaliation wouldn't stop us anymore. Unfortunately, this is why I'm not in favor of the huge missile nerf; it's now too hazardous to expand out of the system. Our only limited war policy now is to try to harass commercial shipping and mining colonies once they start.

Edit: Also, I don't think we need more ground troops. Titan or Mercury are going to be targets for bombardment, not slow invasions. The troops we have will be more useful for seizing mining colonies.