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A) Open Warfare: Shoot them as soon as we can.

15 (48.4%)

B) Cold War: Establish borders, and try to out-grow them.

16 (51.6%)

C) No War: Let's share the solar system.... For now.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 31

[Daltesh]

With little size, and maybe some ECM, couldn't they be treated like little missile, that don't get detected until it's too late ?
I mean, if a salvo of 10 little missile can get through their CWIS (eg), shouldn't a cloud of 20 mines make some real damage ?
(haven't played for a while, and didn't use mines...)

I suppose if we used small enough buoys they could detect the enemy and deploy their sub-munitions before being detected themselves.. Yeah, I take it back, being detected isn't a very big factor for mines.
If we had box launchers it could be an interesting fall back strategy. Put perhaps one or two on every gunboat just to fill out the space, maybe even not bothering to put fire controls on them, and just have the gunboats unload their mines if they need to disengage. IIRC it would play hell with the enemies fire control systems if it's a ton of small groups of missiles rather than a few large ones. And it would certainly discourage them from trying to follow. But as it stands, I don't think they're very applicable to our current situation.

As a sidenote I haven't bothered to play with mines before, but even without fire controls the 'Msl Launch' command in the Task Groups window should work. Aside from that I'm really just guessing on their effectiveness.

[a1s]

Aren't mines essentially immobile MIRVs (I never used one)? And as such won't the second stage be subject to the usual nerfing? It would really add some strategic depth if they didn't, but it would probably be a big exploit (I'm thinking fake mines as missiles).

[a1s]

Could an effort be made to find this "other forum" and the counterpart thread?

Go for it. I think it would be fun to see both sides (with all the paranoia of  2 nuclear powers without diplomacy, it might just be hilarious). And a great exercise for your googling muscle. But you can't post in this thread. BTW when this game ends, we'll want the link to that other forum, so we can all share in the lulz.

[tompliss]

The other forum is in french, so you won't understand that much what they say, I think ...

An AAR would be nice, but I don't think revealling the other forum is such a good idea :
Another game could be nice, a still having the paranoïa aspect of the game could be nice ^^

[MonkeyHead]

Not that I am suspicious at all about any of the posters here being on both threads at all!

[a1s]

I'm afraid you have to leave tomplis (spectating both threads is one thing, but you have been suggesting things). We can't check this, but it would be highly appreciated if you did the same thing on the French forum.   

[tompliss]

I don't know what the other forum is, and I'm not the one that suggested spying the other (*looks at MonkeyHead*).

I know it'(s in french because I actually read the thread.

Take your time digesting all that information, the first turn won't be run until Friday, as I still need to post on the other forum (And I can't copy/paste anything cause it must be in French). Please point any mistake of mine and feel free to ask questions.

By the way : there are 2 's' in TomPliss

[Bremen]

Mines are no more efficient than missiles, less in fact. The only reason to use them instead is a long duration minefield.

Besides, the obvious use or mines would be to use gunboats to secretly lay a minefield in Mercury's orbital path, then wait and snicker.

[MonkeyHead]

Mines are no more efficient than missiles, less in fact. The only reason to use them instead is a long duration minefield.

Besides, the obvious use or mines would be to use gunboats to secretly lay a minefield in Mercury's orbital path, then wait and snicker.

Another idea I highly approve of, but I am very dubious how easy this would be to pull off undetected. Possibly useful as a precursor to some final assault where detection wouldnt matter (and possibly be beneficial as a distraction/diversion?)

[Ehndras]

Perhaps set up mines at Jump Points... Personally, I'd love to mine the OTHER SIDE of a JP once they go through, as it would cut off their weapon systems and they'd die before they had a chance to see what's happening. Hell, blame it on precursors.

[a1s]

Another idea I highly approve of, but I am very dubious how easy this would be to pull off undetected. Possibly useful as a precursor to some final assault where detection wouldnt matter (and possibly be beneficial as a distraction/diversion?)

It's doable, but not really cost efficient: unless we also have powered down gunboats waiting to finish off the crippled ships, most of them will be able to go back to Mercury and repair. We, on the other hand, need to haul mines and fuel all the way from titan (in addition to a semi-permanent  mine-layer fleet tied up in the area). It's better to stick to just deploying fast-moving wolf-packs along the enemy transport lanes.

[Sheb]

Okay, I finally moved back. The Ashdod got only two egnineering space, which is ridiculously low, but the only thing I could trade for engineering space is armor or fuel, and you need the fuel for the gunboats.

Could I get orders ready by tomorrow evening (I'm in Europe, so that means around noon/1P.M forum time)? That way I can run the turn.

[Daltesh]

The last orders in the template we got was a few pages back, so I decided to repost with some minor modifications a1s' old changes in red, mine new ones in.. Purple?

Spoiler: orders (click to show/hide)

Orders:
Space Orders:
When the new Mosul finishes it should join its friend in surveying the Oort Cloud. If an infidel ship approaches Saturn it should be first warned off and then destroyed by Hufufs with sensor support.
Industrial Orders:
Assign 63% of industry to Construction Factories, and 37% to 4 Deep Space Tracking Stations. (This should ensure we finish two during the year)
Research Orders:
Continue current projects, making sure our most powerful scientist (al-Azred currently) always has max. labs . Once Research Rate 280 finishes, research construction rate 12,  construction rate 14, then have him work on Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor and Ion Engines
Our other scientist should work on Jump point theory and then gravitational sensors.
Other Orders:
If we finish grav sensors develop a Grav survey version of the Mosul and build one. This will be a military ship, so add engineering spaces as needed.
pick 2 asteroids close to Saturn- asteroid #1 is the closest to Saturn, asteroid #2 is a few asteroids clockwise from there.
Load 1 DSTS on a Jizzan, load maintenance stations for 200 tons, set a course for the asteroid #1, go half-way at full speed then drop speed as appropriate*. Drop DSTS on #1, and head for #2, drop maintenance there, drop excess (keep as much fuel as we already spent) fuel there, go to Titan, continue delivering maintenance stations and fuel to #2 until we have sufficient maintenance support there (3 trips, I'm guessing).
At the same time, load the Ashod with a full attack wing (9 hufhus+Mersin), deploy to #2 with stealth*. remain while Jizzan is making trips. Drop off attack wing and excess fuel (keep as much fuel as we already spent +10%), Go home.
Standing orders: Attack wing must interdict all ship traffic satisfying both conditions:
a) within 25Mkm of ateroid #1
b) estimated trajectory will take them within 5Mkm of either asteroid (this is a ballpark figure for the local force commander, if you're not sure wheather it's 4.5 or 5.5 Mkm-attack).
(*) assume 625 Planetary sensor strength.

We've got a lot more mines than construction factories, so researching better mining can be done later. Unless I missed something and we're about to run out of Duranium, or something like that! I also think getting better engines is pretty damned important, even though we don't have a PP Scientist. We can focus on our infrastructure after we've got awesome 9000KPS gunboats, and getting it earlier is best since that means we can have time to upgrade or build entirely new stuff with the awesome engines. It might take a bit too long to upgrade the Carrier for it to be worth it though, so maybe building a new one would be a better idea there.

Also missiles doesn't seem like something we should sprint towards right now. We don't even have ordinance factories guys.

Also, 2 engineering bays? That's about as low as I thought, but I can see how it happened. This might seem like a stupid solution, but since both the Hebron destroyers and Mersin support craft have the K'Shaf missile sensors, we could drop them on the carrier pretty easily to get an extra few engineering bays in.

[Sheb]

Or you could remove one layer of armor. Removing the K'shaf allow for 4 more engineering space, lowering the failure rate to 330%. Removing one layer of armor allow you to lower it to 140%, or to 220% with 200,000 more liters of fuel.

[a1s]

I think we should remove armor. It's just a matter of time before Infidels figure out Mersin's purpose, which means that unless we want to limit ourselves to targets 6Kt and up, we need a backup sensor on board the carrier.