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[squeakyReaper]

When I was younger, I always wanted to create a game like Neopets.  That's a natural programmer thing that still kicks in today, and you probably know the feeling.  Sadly, I'm sort of on a creative rut.  I've been looking at a lot of browser based games, and I just can't find one that I really like.  Some are fun, but none really reach a level that I can purely enjoy.

Bay12 might not be one entity, but a majority of us have something in common; we like Dwarf Fortress.  I find that you guys have pretty great taste in games, so I go through the Other Games section quite often to pick out new toys to play with.  Thus I find Bay12 to be a pretty good place to start soul searching- what sort of browser based game would you enjoy?  I would really like to kick up a programming project, and your input would be valuable.  Miscellaneous thoughts below:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• I like city building games on paper, though they always end up...  well Travian-y.  Not very fun, due to being invaded a lot.
• I do like me some Neopets to this day.  "fourth_mouse", just rejoined and all.  But how could I go about making that interesting for people, especially ones that aren't impressed with cutekawaiieyes (anyone over 8 )?  I like the idea of making buying an item being a goal (paint my pet this, buy this artifact, etc) but the grind of playing arcade games every day, whether or not I enjoy them.
• Kingdom of Loathing has pretty enjoyable system...  I guess, if all else fails, I could try for that sort of thing.  RPGs are enjoyable, though I don't know if I can really emulate the hilarious joke stylings.
• How would Dwarf Fortress translate on to an online game?  Well?  Poorly?  Not directly, of course, but something like it..?
• I'll probably find a way to paint a Steampunk theme on to whatever I end up making.  Love me some steampunk.
• I choose browser based because it's pretty simple to forge a community with one.  Obviously DF and LCS have a nice community, but it's an up hill battle.

[Levi]

To be honest even though I dislike most browser based games I've tried, I think there is actually quite a bit of potential for them still.  Javascript and HTML5 is relatively easy to use, and writing server side code isn't that hard either for that sort of thing.

The sort of things I might enjoy are:

- Dungeon Building game
- Roguelike game (steampunk web-based roguelike would be epic)
- strategy/rpg (maybe a tile based final fantasy tactics style game)

[squeakyReaper]

Been thinking about how an online roguelike sort of thing would work.  Rogues tend to die off too quickly for most browser people's liking, haha.  On the strategy side of things, I have enjoyed "Fire Emblem Tactics Online", but that's not my IP to work with.

[alfie275]

Make a game like dwarf fortress!

[Hubris Incalculable]

Make a game like dwarf fortress!

^.-

to be honest, that's a rather silly idea. we already have DF, why do we need another?

[squeakyReaper]

'cause Multiplayer Dwarf Fortress is a dream for a lot of people.  I just...  have no idea how I'd go about doing that.  Not very easy to design.

[Sensei]

You might try making it a mass co-op sort of thing, with building similar to Haven and Hearth. All players start at the center of the map, and try to expand the frontier. Eventually it will become necessary to develop means to distribute equipment to players in the center of the map, and to distribute the players/equipment away from the center. You could set this underground, in the wilderness, on an alien planet, I like the concept regardless.

I haven't worked with HTML much, but I DO know some Javascript (from a one-year computer science class).

[squeakyReaper]

Programming wise, I'm not to worried.  This sort of thing is half for the end product, but the other half is so I can have busy work.  I do know some PHP and MySQL though.

Mass co-op would be nice.  Just not sure how to go about making a city buildingish game without falling to either the insane travian syndrome (Farm weaker people!) or grindy (Zombie Frontier).

[Sensei]

You could go for an emphasis on equipment over skills (possibly not having skills at all). Here's an idea that would have everyone leveling up at the same rate:

Make initial tools craftable from materials in the wild. During this phase, people will have to get tools on their own unless a friend goes out of their way to help. Then around when the next level of tools is available, make it possible for players to build a factory that spits out tools periodically. Tools should probably wear out too, so people who have tools still have a reason to contribute to a factory. For example, it takes copper tools to harvest the material for bronze tools, or to make a factory for flint tools.

Then if someone joins the game some ways in, they can pick up tools at a tier lower than people who are on the frontier exploring for new materials.

[squeakyReaper]

The problem with that though is I have to keep raising the ceiling.  Dunno; I'll worry about the mechanics of the game after I decide what sort it is.  Big things first, aye?

[Sensei]

The alternative is to reset the game every once in a while (for example, when people reach the edge of the map and discover that months' Secret of the Universe), but yeah.

As for the really basics, I say try an in-browser java window ala Minecraft. I've seen some MMOs run off of wed-start jnlp windows, but if you kept it in-browser you could also use the web page for some interface things. Either of the java options would make real-time a possibility, but if you want something turn based or asynchronous you could just use HTML/PHP.

For actual gameplay mechanics, an isometric, camera-follows-character model would work best, I think.

[squeakyReaper]

Didn't think about java/flash, that could be a fun way to play.  I do want to keep it relatively "soft", though, in that anyone could play it if they looked up a guide or two.  That seems more buzz-wordy than it should though.

One thing I could do is have players have two game mode things.  On one hand, they own a town or village or castle, depending on how developed it gets.  You embody whoever leads it, whether it's an oligarchy or republic or what have you, and can make any call you want on how it's raised and who you trade with.

On the other hand, you can play heroes from your town.  If your town has a good program for trading merchants, you can be an exceptionally strong trader.  If you have a militia in place, which you should, you can ascend a guardsman to be a hero.  From there, you can read up on what your town needs (Secure an iron deposit, retrieve an artifact that produces infinite water, etc.) and go adventure around as one of your people.  If you succeed, your town gets a bonus in some way.  You could play as more than one hero or whatever, perhaps create your own party of 4 or 6.  Whatcha think?

[freeformschooler]

SqueakyReaper, that sounds like a wonderful idea so far. However, I think you probably shouldn't worry about it being too "hard" because intuitiveness can make up for a fair portion of learning curve. I especially like the idea of your town running concurrent to your hero, and a hero's success giving a bonus to the town. However, a real "hero's" success would be pretty linear (kill this or that bad guy(s) perhaps), but what would be the criteria for a playable trader's "success"?

EDIT: Sorry if I don't make sense, I'm a programmer but game design just somehow naturally escapes me.

[Sensei]

It's not hard to make a simple user interface, especially if you base it around mouse clicks, in Java. I would go for a design where right clicking things brings up a list of valid things to do with an object (examine, use, attack, take, speak, etc) and where left performs some kind of default action (attack an enemy, take some loot, view a building's status) based on the what class the object is or extends.

As for building a town and also controlling a hero- that's a good concept, even if it's been done a little before. However I'm not sure how much that would benefit from multiplayer.

Edit: Maybe do a zombie survival thing. Being continually besieged would give players a reason to interact moreso than most city building games where there is relatively little threat outside of other players.

[squeakyReaper]

@freeformscholar  Game design kind of greys out for me as well.  Creativity as a whole, even; my Dorf Forts are very tame.  But good point, 'cause if Toady had reservations then we wouldn't be as awesome.

@Sensei  Trading agreements, waging war (even against NPCs) and sharing resources could be co-operative on a town level.  As for adventurers, perhaps you could create an adventurer from another town if you're allied with someone, and you could form parties with other players as well when you go questing.  I dunno, just throwing ideas out there.  Right click menus are good for navigating, which lends a large argument in favor of Java over Flash and plain PHP.  Dunno how Javascript works with right clicks, I'll have to check.

Edit to your edit:  Could be done, yeah.  Even in keeping with steampunk theme; Girl Genius has a good example of how mad scientists can create a bunch of mindless minions to rush.  Imagine fighting off an enormous winged gorilla with a gatling gun arm using your hydrolic powered flintlock!