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[GreatWyrmGold]

I was thinking of making a "ferromancer" kind of creature as a warm-up or replacement of my vaguely-planned tyranid project. I need a bit of help, though, mainly in figuring out if certain things wuld work the way I think they would.

1.) How could I make them "fire" "webs" made out of iron?
2.) Could they be collected?
3.) Could the thread/cloth/items made out of the cloth be melted?
4.) If so, could the  iron from it be smelted into pig iron/turned into other iron objects/etc?
5.) Would ropes made out of the cloth be called chains?
-----
6.) How could I get a "chain" bodypart to act as "armor" over the rest of the body?
7.) For that matter, would it be possible to have just the chains made out of iron and the rest out of not-iron?
8.) I'm imagining a "smelt own chains" reaction that would produce iron bars and an instant-boiling stone with a syndrome that harms the chains and causes pain. How could I do the latter part with such presicion that a few times a month is plenty fine, but Smelt Own Chains/R will swiftly cause the demise of (or at least permanent harm to) the furnace operator?
9.) Would such a reaction allow the ferromancers to have acess to iron without also needing another reaction? I think that would be interesting.
10.) Would the reaction from #8 cause merchants of that race to bring items made of the syndromey stone, and if so is there any way to avoid that?

Thanks for any help you can give.

[thatkid]

1. Not entirely sure.
2. If they're a web, yes.
3. Probably not.
4. ^
5. ^^
----
6. Hypothetically you could maybe create a layer for a body part that goes over every other layer and is made of iron.
7. Yes, as it would be its own separate layer.
8. Have the syndrome in question cause necrosis in the iron body part only.
9. I believe so.
10. I think it will only cause them to arrive with the metal, but I might be wrong.

[trees]

According to this bug report, webs are kind of bugged but should work if you use [WEBBER:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SILK] and [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SILK:SILK_TEMPLATE] in the creature's raws. In your case, I guess you'd have to make a new kind of "silk" that has the properties of iron, and replace "SILK" with whatever you define the new material as. I haven't tested this myself, but I think it should work.

Oh, and the merchants shouldn't end up bringing your syndrome-carrying stone unless it occurs naturally.

[GreatWyrmGold]

3. Probably not.
4. ^
5. ^^

Sad.

6. Hypothetically you could maybe create a layer for a body part that goes over every other layer and is made of iron.
7. Yes, as it would be its own separate layer.

But then how could I make them attack with and maybe hold objects in the chains?

8. Have the syndrome in question cause necrosis in the iron body part only.

How much? How much pain? How do I stop them from either dying on the first smelt or being able to smelt their own chains indefinitly exce[t for eating/sleeping/drinking pauses with no long-term effects?

10. I think it will only cause them to arrive with the metal, but I might be wrong.

I hope so.

According to this bug report, webs are kind of bugged but should work if you use [WEBBER:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SILK] and [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SILK:SILK_TEMPLATE] in the creature's raws. In your case, I guess you'd have to make a new kind of "silk" that has the properties of iron, and replace "SILK" with whatever you define the new material as. I haven't tested this myself, but I think it should work.

Oh, and the merchants shouldn't end up bringing your syndrome-carrying stone unless it occurs naturally.

A. Cool. Is there any way to just tell it to use the properties of iron, like all of a bronze colossus's tissues use the properties of bronze? (Say, can you melt BC arms, etc?)
B. I hope so, but can't merchants come with anything their reactions can make?

[Grimlocke]

1: [WEBBER:INORGANIC:IRON] should do the trick.

3, 4 and 5: all metal items seem to be meltable, so iron webs collected as 'iron strands' should be meltable. If not, you can simply make a reaction for this.

You may have to add whatever tag lets you make clothes from adamantine to iron if you want to use the stuff as cloth.

8: Boiling material syndromes are very unreliable. Often doesnt work. You may be better off making a shearable iron chain tissue layer.

10: make the syndrom material a creature material, without any tags like [ALCOHOL_CREATURE].

EDIT: a quick arena test revealed iron webs show up as 'iron strands', before even being collected. The rest seems to work though.

[trees]

I don't think you can melt bronze colossus body parts but I really have no idea because I've never seen a body part of theirs removed, and they drop those statues instead of corpses. Grimlocke is spot on with the material properties.

[GreatWyrmGold]

1: [WEBBER:INORGANIC:IRON] should do the trick.

3, 4 and 5: all metal items seem to be meltable, so iron webs collected as 'iron strands' should be meltable. If not, you can simply make a reaction for this.

Awesome! Thanks!

You may have to add whatever tag lets you make clothes from adamantine to iron if you want to use the stuff as cloth.

Also good! I was thinking of using webs to represent tangling enemies up with chains, and it would be kinda weird to weave clothes out of chains.

8: Boiling material syndromes are very unreliable. Often doesnt work. You may be better off making a shearable iron chain tissue layer.

But I want to have them strangle people with their chains and strike them and stuff! Is there any way to do that?

10: make the syndrom material a creature material, without any tags like [ALCOHOL_CREATURE].

...Huh? I thought they could show up with creature materials. Now I'm confused.

EDIT: a quick arena test revealed iron webs show up as 'iron strands', before even being collected. The rest seems to work though.

Not surprising, given how webs work. Sounds like they would work like bluestuff strands, except that you couldn't turn them into wafers.

[trees]

But I want to have them strangle people with their chains and strike them and stuff! Is there any way to do that?

You could add the [GRASP] tag to their chains and give them natural skill in wrestling. If you do that you can probably just copy over the generic "punch" attack, link it to their chains and beef it up a little.

[GreatWyrmGold]

The problem being that the others suggested using chains as a tissue layer. You can't make stuff grasp with a tissue layer.

[trees]

If you want them to beat stuff up with their chains, they'll need to be appendages.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Obviously. How can I get an apendage to do all the things I want chains to be able to do?

[D_E]

I was thinking of making a "ferromancer" kind of creature as a warm-up or replacement of my vaguely-planned tyranid project. I need a bit of help, though, mainly in figuring out if certain things wuld work the way I think they would.

-----
6.) How could I get a "chain" bodypart to act as "armor" over the rest of the body?
7.) For that matter, would it be possible to have just the chains made out of iron and the rest out of not-iron?
8.) I'm imagining a "smelt own chains" reaction that would produce iron bars and an instant-boiling stone with a syndrome that harms the chains and causes pain. How could I do the latter part with such presicion that a few times a month is plenty fine, but Smelt Own Chains/R will swiftly cause the demise of (or at least permanent harm to) the furnace operator?
9.) Would such a reaction allow the ferromancers to have acess to iron without also needing another reaction? I think that would be interesting.
10.) Would the reaction from #8 cause merchants of that race to bring items made of the syndromey stone, and if so is there any way to avoid that?

6-7.)  You would need ~1 chain bodypart per bodypart to be armored, as a body part can only armor neighboring bodyparts on the body plan (for example, a chain attached to the upperbody can armor the lower body, right and left upper arms, and the head bodypart.  It can't armor the upperbody itself, the lower arms etc, or the eyes and other facial features).
Here is an example body and body detail plan:

Code: [Select]

[BODY:ARMORED_HUMANOID]
[BP:ROOT:body:bodies][CATEGORY:BODY_UPPER][INTERNAL][SMALL]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1]
[BP:UB_A:breastplate:STP][CATEGORY:ARMOR][CON:ROOT][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:UB:upper body:upper bodies][UPPERBODY][CATEGORY:BODY_UPPER] THOUGHT [CON:ROOT]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]
[BP:LB_A:fauld:STP][CATEGORY:ARMOR][CON:ROOT][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:LB:lower body:lower bodies][CON:ROOT][LOWERBODY][CATEGORY:BODY_LOWER] THOUGHT
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]
[BP:HD_A:helm:STP][CATEGORY:ARMOR][CON:UB][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:60]
[BP:HD:head:STP][CON:UB][HEAD][CATEGORY:HEAD] THOUGHT
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:300]
[BP:RUA_A:right pauldron:STP][CON:UB][SOCKET][RIGHT][CATEGORY:ARMOR]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:40]
[BP:RUA:right upper arm:STP][CON:UB][LIMB][RIGHT][CATEGORY:ARM_UPPER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:LUA_A:left pauldron:STP][CON:UB][SOCKET][LEFT][CATEGORY:ARMOR]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:40]
[BP:LUA:left upper arm:STP][CON:UB][LIMB][LEFT][CATEGORY:ARM_UPPER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:RLA_A:right vambrace:STP][CATEGORY:ARMOR][RIGHT][CON:RUA][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:40]
[BP:RLA:right lower arm:STP][CON:RUA][LIMB][RIGHT][CATEGORY:ARM_LOWER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:LLA_A:left vambrace:STP][CATEGORY:ARMOR][LEFT][CON:LUA][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:40]
[BP:LLA:left lower arm:STP][CON:LUA][LIMB][LEFT][CATEGORY:ARM_LOWER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:RH_A:right gauntlet:STP][CATEGORY:ARMOR][RIGHT][CON:RLA][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:16]
[BP:RH:right hand:STP][CON:RLA][GRASP][RIGHT][CATEGORY:HAND]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:80]
[BP:LH_A:left gauntlet:STP][CATEGORY:ARMOR][LEFT][CON:LLA][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:16]
[BP:LH:left hand:STP][CON:LLA][GRASP][LEFT][CATEGORY:HAND]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:80]
[BP:RUL_A:right cuisse:STP][CATEGORY:ARMOR][RIGHT][CON:LB][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:100]
[BP:RUL:right upper leg:STP][CON:LB][LIMB][RIGHT][CATEGORY:LEG_UPPER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:500]
[BP:LUL_A:left cuisse:STP][CATEGORY:ARMOR][LEFT][CON:LB][SOCKET]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:100]
[BP:LUL:left upper leg:STP][CON:LB][LIMB][LEFT][CATEGORY:LEG_UPPER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:500]
[BP:RLL_A:right greave:STP][CON:RUL][SOCKET][RIGHT][CATEGORY:ARMOR]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:80]
[BP:RLL:right lower leg:STP][CON:RUL][LIMB][RIGHT][CATEGORY:LEG_LOWER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:400]
[BP:LLL_A:left greave:STP][CON:LUL][SOCKET][LEFT][CATEGORY:ARMOR]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:80]
[BP:LLL:left lower leg:STP][CON:LUL][LIMB][LEFT][CATEGORY:LEG_LOWER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:400]
[BP:RF_A:armored boot:STP][CON:RLL][SOCKET][RIGHT][CATEGORY:ARMOR]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:60]
[BP:RF:right foot:right feet][CON:RLL][STANCE][RIGHT][CATEGORY:FOOT]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:120]
[BP:LF_A:armored boot:STP][CON:LLL][SOCKET][LEFT][CATEGORY:ARMOR]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:60]
[BP:LF:left foot:left feet][CON:LLL][STANCE][LEFT][CATEGORY:FOOT]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:120]

Body detail plan:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_ARMOR]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:UB_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:UB:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:LB_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:LB:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:HD_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:HD:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:LUA_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:LUA:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:RUA_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:RUA:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:LLA_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:LLA:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:RLA_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:RLA:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:LH_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:LH:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:RH_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:RH:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:LUL_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:LUL:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:RUL_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:RUL:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:LLL_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:LLL:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:RLL_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:RLL:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:LF_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:LF:100]
   [BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:RF_A:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:RF:100]

Plus it needs materials, which I usually define and add in the creature itself.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

   [TISSUE:ARMORMATA]
      [TISSUE_NAME:leather surcoat:leather]
      [TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:ARMORMATA]
      [STRUCTURAL]
      [CONNECTS]
      [RELATIVE_THICKNESS:10]
      [TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
   [USE_MATERIAL:ARMORMATB:INORGANIC:IRON]
   [TISSUE:ARMORMATB]
      [TISSUE_NAME:iron plate:iron]
      [TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:ARMORMATB]
      [STRUCTURAL]
      [CONNECTS]
      [RELATIVE_THICKNESS:10]
      [TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
      [SCARS]
      [HEALING_RATE:1000]
   [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ARMOR:ARMORMATA]
   [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ARMOR:ARMORMATB]

8a.)  If I were you, I'd look into the shearing mechanics for this.  If you made the chain's tissue layers grow like that of the sheep's wool, you could let the ferromancers shear each other periodically for metal.

But I want to have them strangle people with their chains and strike them and stuff! Is there any way to do that?

If you follow the body plan stuff above, you would have 'chain' bodyparts covered in 'chain' tissues.  The 'chain' bodypart would own the attacks, while the 'chain' tissue would provide the shearable material.  Also, I believe the 'chain' bodyparts would be more vulnarable to attacks after being sheared, since their primary tissue layer would be thinner.  Also, if you set the attacks to use a tissue layer, the attacks might be weaker after shearing, too.

8b.)  If you want to go the reaction rout, I would suggest that the syndrome cause bleeding from the upper body, say.  Tune the bleeding so that if a creature repeatedly does the reaction, they bleed out.

9.)  If you use a reaction instead of the shearing technique, they would have access to iron.  If you use the shearing technique, I think you would need to give them a world-gen only reaction enabling iron.

10.) They wouldn't bring the syndrome stones.  Entities only use reactions to determine which metals they have.

[_DivideByZero_]

You could also add [DEEP_SPECIAL] to make the game think the stone is raw adamantine.

[Quietust]

You could also add [DEEP_SPECIAL] to make the game think the stone is raw adamantine.

That may also cause it to replace the raw adamantine sealing the HFS within Hell - I don't recall exactly how the game behaves if you define more than one type of deep stone.

[Grimlocke]

Has anyone tried to set one bodypart as 'around' for for multiple other bodyparts? I tried it the other way once, but when the creature gets hit once it all collapses into a singularity if the combat log is to be believed.