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[Phmcw]

You'll always need normal economy in any foreseeable future. But don't be fooled, the system isn't only buying stuff and money isn't just what you have in your pocket. There is a reason why one lifetime isn't enough to explore all aspect business laws, and there is unwritten rules to booth.

However you're right that without a central bank to give out cheap loan, an economic crisis will be devastating. Maybe some peoples will be able to make an alternate currency work. That could save them in the case of a default.*

Edit : to clarify, I'm speaking of the scenario where America actually default, which would mean that the corporate sponsor of your government have simply bought enough Euro, yen a,d other foreign money to be able to buy America for cheap after the crises.
But I have trouble envisioning it. That would be, just such a treason of unimaginable scope that I'd rather think they will yield before the debacle is complete.

[Africa]

I'm not so sure. I think a lot of them are living in a fantasy world, convinced nothing bad will happen if we default. Add to that the fact that they're obsessed with getting re-elected and therefore having to stick to all kinds of idiotic no-tax pledges they made, and the political gains from not cooperating with Obama, and you have exactly the group that's willing to let the whole country burn to prove a point.

[Phmcw]

Yes, but they are backing and funding. Look at where the money come from, and you will have the orders givers.
And those are not retarded, just using the idiocy to fulfill their ends.

[nenjin]

Now Boehner says he wants a deal before Asian Markets open on Monday. Whether that happens depends on if he can get his own party to fall in line. Which at this point I'm starting to doubt.

[Aqizzar]

Now Boehner says he wants a deal before Asian Markets open on Monday. Whether that happens depends on whether he can get his own party to fall in line. Which at this point I'm starting to doubt.

He needs enough Republicans to get a bill through the House.  There's a solid portion of them who will probably not vote for any deal, certainly not one that isn't everything they want.  The opportunist could try to appeal to Boehner's intelligence, and the intelligence of the rational-Republican element of his House, and make a bill that enough of them and Democrats could vote for that it would pass.  All it would cost him is his Speakership.  At this point, I'm seriously wondering whether Obama recognizes that he does in fact have the ability to offer suggestions that those non-Boehner Republicans won't agree to.  This is a game of chicken I'm really tired of watching.

[Eagleon]

And when nobody wants your product because they're cutting back their budget to the essentials?

You sell the product for less, and eventually it becomes more profitable to scrounge for change on the street. Everyone stops coming into work. Rats and termites have a party on the factory floor.

I don't understand why we need the permission of people, whose only claim to authority over such permissions is a large accumulation of imaginary numbers, to operate our fields and factories and otherwise partake of the resources that the rock we are all standing on is fucking made of.

What fields and factories? We don't make the world work anymore, we've pushed all of that out to the sidelines so that we can have relatively cushy jobs making advertisement campaigns and overpriced underengineered cars.

SalmonGod, I'm not saying it's impossible to do what you're talking about. I'm saying it's only possible if you don't want the sheer amount of stuff that Americans expect on a daily basis. No, scratch that, it's only possible if everyone in America doesn't want the stuff that Americans expect on a daily basis. I mean, unless you want to abolish child labor laws entirely and beg for/steal the materials to actually build these so-called factories. That could work too.

No country is an island. At least not an island that can come up with and sustain the idea of planned obsolescence. The US has blithely stumbled into a fairly useless state and ignored that, and now your idea is naive. Sorry. Really, it'd be cool if this started a new industrial revolution, in the sense that it would drill into our heads how horrifically bad the demands for industry have become for the people that meet them, but I think it's much more likely that if we did face Great Depression 2.0, we'd be facing Rome 2.0 shortly thereafter.

[werechicken]

I read this on the BBC website (one of our leading politicians actually used the word nutters to describe the situation)

If I've got this right, if there isn't a deal in place by the 2nd of August then the US might run out of money?

That can't be right surely? I mean is it just certain parts like non-essential programmes or things like the police and the army?

[Nadaka]

The us does have some revenue to keep running without the debt limit raised. Police are generally state or local, but the fbi would pobably shut down. In the past, the promise has beenmade that military pay will br made, but I honestly don't know if that is going to hold.

[Saint]

You don't need to raise taxes to run the country, it doesn't take trillions of $ to run the country.
Hell maybe if you stuck to the way the country was supposed to be ran we wouldn't have such a large looming federal government that required trillions to run?
HMM?
Oh wait, what's that you say? oh wait, less than 60% of the country pays taxes, hows about instead you make people pay taxes instead of raise them.
Maybe you should stop giving everyone and their mother a wellfare check for just being here? I don't know, maybe use those things for people that NEED it?

What I'm saying is, it's not republicans or democrats that caused this, it's the entire country through the years that has fucked us this far, the U.S business model is like 80 years old, try fixing that instead as well.

[Phmcw]

You don't need to raise taxes to run the country, it doesn't take trillions of $ to run the country.
Hell maybe if you stuck to the way the country was supposed to be ran we wouldn't have such a large looming federal government that required trillions to run?
HMM?
Oh wait, what's that you say? oh wait, less than 60% of the country pays taxes, hows about instead you make people pay taxes instead of raise them.
Maybe you should stop giving everyone and their mother a wellfare check for just being here? I don't know, maybe use those things for people that NEED it?

What I'm saying is, it's not republicans or democrats that caused this, it's the entire country through the years that has fucked us this far, the U.S business model is like 80 years old, try fixing that instead as well.

Kiddo, business can only lead you so far. You NEED social security, because there are people who are crazy, malfuctional, unlucky, sick, .... The problem for you is not to get high taxes, is to put normal ones.
That's for one. Second, poor poeple are poor, by definition, so if you tax them, first you get practically no money out of it, second their live will be fucking miserable thus they'll start slitting rich peoples throat, selling drugs of pimping. Those you want to avoid.

Therefore you need to A) cut military spending because it's so huge there is no way you can sustain that B) Get real subsided education in order to have a sub par workforce and plenty of graduate, as well as an healthily intelligent society C) Get free health-care in order to be humane AND not to loose potentially interesting people to illnesses. D) Get some fucking sources of revenues. That mean stop the tax cuts on the wealthy, and several assorted taxes on finance.

That is mostly the program of democrats, but I suspect they are not serious about it, at least not the head of the party.

Instead your politician are drowned in corporate lobbyist that own their balls because they finance their campaigns.
Therefore it's VERY important for America's democracy that private financing of political parties is completely forbidden and relocated to a transparent and public budget with assorted mandatory airtime for each parties.

[Nadaka]

You don't need to raise taxes to run the country, it doesn't take trillions of $ to run the country.
Hell maybe if you stuck to the way the country was supposed to be ran we wouldn't have such a large looming federal government that required trillions to run?
HMM?
Oh wait, what's that you say? oh wait, less than 60% of the country pays taxes, hows about instead you make people pay taxes instead of raise them.
Maybe you should stop giving everyone and their mother a wellfare check for just being here? I don't know, maybe use those things for people that NEED it?

What I'm saying is, it's not republicans or democrats that caused this, it's the entire country through the years that has fucked us this far, the U.S business model is like 80 years old, try fixing that instead as well.

The hell you can. The majority of that 60% can barely afford to survive and many can't even do that. The median income of 40 something thousand is propped up by the top 400 who own half of all wealth. If you remove the top and bottom 1%, the average us income is dangerously close to the cost of living. You are talking about taxes that will kill people. Thousands are already dieing because they choose not to seek medical care that they can not afford.

The us is embroiled in class warfare, and the top 1% are already winning. Leaching off the backs of indebted labor and crushing the poor into oblivion.  You sir are a feudalist advocating a return to the dark ages and the end of enlightened civilization.

[Bauglir]

It's an acceptable policy if you're okay with deciding that it's okay to kill people. Otherwise, taxpayers end up paying more for emergency medical care, not to mention all the money that needs to be spent sheltering the people who have money from the people who don't (and believe me, this will have to happen; people don't like being reminded that there's suffering in the world that they could easily prevent at an inconvenience to themselves). Just to start with the two most obvious, direct consequences (someone more familiar with this can probably explain why, even if you're in a position to pay your taxes regardless, it's not just somebody else's problem).

[DJ]

No, I think it's a good plan. They should also tell the poor to eat cake. Guillotines are long overdue.

[ed boy]

The hell you can. The majority of that 60% can barely afford to survive and many can't even do that. The median income of 40 something thousand is propped up by the top 400 who own half of all wealth. If you remove the top and bottom 1%, the average us income is dangerously close to the cost of living.

That is absolute bollocks. By mathematical definition, the median is the middle value. If you remove the top and bottom 1%, then the median will not change. That why people talk about the median in situations like this; because it is mathematically incapable of being artificially raised/lowered because of a small minority.

[Vector]

I think he's talking about a different average in the second part than the beginning--the arithmetical mean, for example.