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[Vector]

This might lighten the mood

I thought that was real up until I checked the little satire tag at the bottom.  Well, and there was a particular turn of phrase.  But I was hoping it was real >_> <_<


Aaaagh and I need to start practicing my social skills much harder, and mapping Xanatos Gambits, which means that it's about time to start investing in a lot of game theory textbooks, but also mechanism design theory if I can pick up the papers, and linear algebra for the Markov chains, and psychology...

:I

I am going to stop freaking out right now.  I am going to bed, waking up, and drawing up a plan of attack.  And then I am going to follow that plan every day, and adapt it as needed.  And I am going to stop worrying, because this is exactly the kick up the ass I needed after three years of general stagnation.  And everything is going to be okay, and we are going to make it through this.

Right?

Yes.

[Aklyon]

We will make it through this eventually (in some way), and hopefully it'll clear out some of the stupid on its way.

[Nadaka]

Personally, I am terrified.

In my entire family there are 3 revenue streams. My grandparents ss retirement, my mothers ss disability and my income as from my job writing software for the military. All of these will end if we default.

Besides the impact on me personally, yes I really can see hundreds o thousands or even millions dieing if this goes particularly badly. We are worse off as a nation going into this crisis than we were for the great depression.

Conservative republicans are traitors and enemies.

[Vector]

Fucking hell.  Let's hope that we learn to stop being such fucking idiot individualists soon, because we aren't going to make it through this without some sort of collective spirit.

[SalmonGod]

I doubt the sentiment is welcome, but I'll say it anyway.

We can also keep in mind that it's all an imaginary number game.  It only matters because we live by the rules set out by those in charge of that game.  If those people say that we should leave our homes and starve because of their imaginary number game... why should we?  If this really ends up going the worst possible way, such that a major portion of the u.s. population is fucked... would it really make sense to just lie down? 

I mean... we're the people who make the world work.  We don't just work because we're told.  We work because it's how we generate the stuff that makes our lives possible.  What's going on is literally a handful of the population telling the rest "Stop working to support yourselves.  Lay down and die."

I don't get it.  Why do we listen to them?

This is normally where about 40 people all at once tell me I'm naive... usually in an angry tone for some reason.

[Vector]

That is an excellent point.  A truly excellent point.

[Aqizzar]

We can also keep in mind that it's all an imaginary number game.  It only matters because we live by the rules set out by those in charge of that game.  If those people say that we should leave our homes and starve because of their imaginary number game... why should we?  If this really ends up going the worst possible way, such that a major portion of the u.s. population is fucked... would it really make sense to just lie down? 

I mean... we're the people who make the world work.  We don't just work because we're told.  We work because it's how we generate the stuff that makes our lives possible.  What's going on is literally a handful of the population telling the rest "Stop working to support yourselves.  Lay down and die."

I guess I'll be one of those 40 people then and say that I have no idea what you're talking about.  Yes, we do in fact live by a game of imaginary numbers, if you want to think about it that way.  But guess what, you don't have another option.  I don't even really know where to begin calling this naive because I feel like nothing I could say would mean anything to you.

It's a great sentiment I guess, to recline on a mountaintop and point out that things over have value because we say they do.  But unless you're going to convince the entire world in the next week that... I don't even know what.  That it doesn't matter if you owe people money?  I'm not talking about nations here, I'm talking about when your job stops paying you because they don't have any money either, and you all still have bills to pay, because the bill collector being as broke as you does not absolve you of your bills, until such a time as there is no society left to say bills mean anything.

[SalmonGod]

I don't understand why we need the permission of people, whose only claim to authority over such permissions is a large accumulation of imaginary numbers, to operate our fields and factories and otherwise partake of the resources that the rock we are all standing on is fucking made of.

I feel like the entire thing is constructed of bullshit obfuscation that puts everyone at the mercy of a few. 

During the housing crash a couple years ago, tons of people were kicked out of their homes.  Why?  They get notices saying "We have numbers.  You leave now."  So people left their homes there to rot for no real reason whatsoever... because of what a pitifully small portion of the population is saying about a bunch of numbers that obviously have not even the slightest abstract connection to the actual availability of resources.

And the same sort of thing is about to happen again.  I don't get it.  It doesn't make any sense to me.  At all.  It never has.  And it's infinitely frustrating to me to see large numbers of people told to meaninglessly sacrifice their well-being to this stupid number game, who then comply while everyone else in the world turns away.

until such a time as there is no society left to say bills mean anything.

You make it sound like society and bills are synonymous.  Society is just cooperation of people.  If anything, bills only place us at odds, which is counter to that definition of society... the way I see it, anyway.

But unless you're going to convince the entire world in the next week that...

I understand that this is the major problem. The majority of people cannot envision a different way of life.  It's just... frustrating... so frustrating...  Every day of my life, I feel like I'm held at invisible gunpoint to organize my life according to the highest imaginable absurdity.  We could base our society on sacrifice to mythical creatures on mountaintops and it would make just as much sense and be more efficient.

Anyway, I've said my obligatory anarchist thing, and will leave it alone now.  I'm not going to turn this into a debate on the subject, mostly because I always end up getting treated like a child and the best type of explanation I ever receive in the process is "Nothing else will ever work ever because people suck."

[Phmcw]

It has been done So yes, you can basically say "fuck you" to the system.
But I don't think American are currently clever enough to understand that. So yeah, in case of a default, you may literally starve.

Edit : to be clear I mean that the stupid conservative movement that is currently ruining you would most likely oppose it, and that from what I know of your democrats, they wouldn't even dare thinking of it.

[Nadaka]

The poblem is that they are not going to let you opt out and keep the crap their numbers say are theirs. And most people would rather play the number game than the bullet game.

[Africa]

Saying "fuck the system" doesn't enable you to buy food and housing when you have no money because nobody has enough money to hire you to do anything.

[dragonshardz]

Conservative republicans are traitors and enemies.

I hardly think chronic idiocy counts as treason.

Obama's promises for election were pretty nebulous, as I remember - "Real change! Hope!" Now is definitely the time to follow through and give us Real Change and a little Hope by fixing the problem and showing that "Yes We Can" wasn't just empty words.

Otherwise...well, we're in trouble. If the government doesn't do anything, which it likely won't, then its up to us, The People, to do something. But then...how many will fight back, rather than lie down in the streets and wait to die, while watching the rest of the world either slowly crumble or march onwards, a sad look on its face for a fallen comrade?

[Phmcw]

Saying "fuck the system" doesn't enable you to buy food and housing when you have no money because nobody has enough money to hire you to do anything.

What they did is to keep working even though the factory was scheduled to be closed, and sold their product as usual, while buying prime material with the money of the sales.
Basically, they boss told them "stop working, we're closing for no reason" and they answered "fuck you, we keep working, just not for you". It worked on quite a few occurrences.

[Africa]

Saying "fuck the system" doesn't enable you to buy food and housing when you have no money because nobody has enough money to hire you to do anything.

What they did is to keep working even though the factory was scheduled to be closed, and sold their product as usual, while buying prime material with the money of the sales.
Basically, they boss told them "stop working, we're closing for no reason" and they answered "fuck you, we keep working, just not for you". It worked on quite a few occurrences.

And when nobody wants your product because they're cutting back their budget to the essentials?

[andrea]

As I see it,  it was an act against the owner rather than the system.. they still needed and used normal economy. Sell stuff, get money. then pay bills, buy food and all that.  They even set wages for themselves.
Which means that if we are in a big economic crisis, they can suffer too. They managed the factory better than the former owner, but if customers disappeared, they would still have big troubles, unless the factory has a rather large farm in the backyard to give them the much needed food.