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[DJ]

I thought the whole point of low taxes is to be competitive on the international market. I mean, who cares if he pays lower percentage of his income if it causes his standard of living to decline at the end of the day?

Though I guess I might be wrong on the competitiveness thing, Germany has very high taxes and still they got a healthy trade surplus.

[Duke 2.0]

I believe that 'something' is called bankruptcy. And when the USA goes bankrupt... *shudder*

 All us other countries are already planning celebrations, we've all made a deal with china to either get a state or a town at least.

 If bz Planning Celebrations zou mean Prazing to dman near everz god that thez can keep us all up somehow, then zeah that is what thez are doing.

 Do zou reallz want to see America, the militarz powerhouse of the western world after WWII, destabiliye? Do zou think other major countries just an ocean awaz want to see this?

[Phmcw]

 If bz Planning Celebrations zou mean Prazing to dman near everz god that thez can keep us all up somehow, then zeah that is what thez are doing.

 Do you reallz want to see America, the military powerhouse of the western world after WWII, destabilized? Do you think other major countries just an ocean away want to see this?

Yes they do. In case you didn't notice, that mean that they will become the world's first military force.

On the economic side , an article I liked : http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/15/opinion/15krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

[Duke 2.0]

Yes they do. In case you didn't notice, that mean that they will become the world's first military force.

I know when we decide to do world policing we screw it up and when others ask for it things turn out well, just ask us to grant red telephones to everz world leader to call us up if things turn out bad. No need for this political destabiliyation ringaround. Granted to an outside observer that maz seem to be the standard procedure around here, especiallz with the current issues at hand, but one of us needs to get over this awkward situation and ask for a date, and we are the teenage nation around here.

[mainiac]

This whole debt ceiling shit is a bait and switch of the highest order.  Back in 2000 we were told that we needed TEMPORARY tax cuts to get rid of the Clinton surplus and were promised that they wouldn't lead to shredding the government.  People went along with this patent lie because Bush and Co funded the government through deficits for six years while democrats had no control of congress.

Now flash forward and the democrats are being asked to take responsibility for shredding the government to pay for the "temporary" bush tax cuts.

And they were temporary.  They were passed under budget rules that would only allow for temporary deficits so the democrats couldn't stop the GOP from destroying the budget.  They were sold as being needed to balance out the surplus (in 2001) and later to end the 2003 recession.  But now we are supposed to make permanent cuts to every function of our government to pay for them.

And we are going to be cutting essential things to the bone.  Have fun driving on unmaintained highways.  Have fun living in a nation where poverty is rising in a manner unprecedented in a wealthy nation.  But dont worry, we wont cut back on making bombs or giving old people their checks.  Just things like healthcare for the poor and decent schooling.

It is crass and downright EVIL age and class warfare of the like which I didn't think was possible in a modern democracy.

One last thing.  Anyone who thinks a balanced budget right now is a good idea needs to shut the hell up and learn some basic economic history.  Remember, government debt as a percentage of GDP FELL from 1932-1937 as the New Deal spending pulled the economy out of depression and the rose again in 1937-1938 as the government tried to balance the budget, slamming the economy.

DONT BALANCE THE FUCKING BUDGET WHEN INTEREST RATES ARE AT ZERO GODDAMN PERCENT AND THE FEDERAL RESERVE CAN'T OFFSET THE CONTARCTION.  It makes your long term budget picture worse, not better.  (The only exception being if your government credit is in the dumps, but seeing as the US is tied with Germany for best in the world, that really isn't the case... not unless the republicans manage to intentionally sabotage our credit rating.)

[counting]

I thought the whole point of low taxes is to be competitive on the international market. I mean, who cares if he pays lower percentage of his income if it causes his standard of living to decline at the end of the day?

Though I guess I might be wrong on the competitiveness thing, Germany has very high taxes and still they got a healthy trade surplus.

Tax rate is not directly linked to international trade or economic growth, its about redistributing wealth and resources for the benefit of the whole society. You can have a 100% "tax rate" as an analog to communism system that everything should be shared with others, and the government decides how to distribute them. The domestic wealth distribution process does not directly affect the amount of goods exchanged with foreign countries. The tax that directly effect international trade is tariff, but its not a major income in most modern nations. (In free-market it should be as low as possible)

The economic strength doesn't just rely on how much "money" you make, but how much "production" is capable. (not just manufacturing, services as well). The capitals in economic world are everything human made and participated which can be used by others and accumulated. Hence, its not a bad thing if trade deficit happens, since you are accumulating physical capitals from other nations using debts, as long as you can put these physical capitals into good use and paid back the debts in the future.

Government budge deficit on the other hand is another matter. As long as the capitals you "borrowed" can generate more economic growth than its interests needed to be paid, its a good deal. Like every other businesses that borrowed money, if you can earn more than you paid, it good business, and in fact it's a more efficient way of accumulating capitals. And government bonds as debts are so important in modern monetary system, that one day if there is no bond market, then the economic system will crash down. (interests rate is heavily influenced by the bond market) A way of evaluating the government performance, is also evaluating its government bonds. If you looked at the EU financial crisis news, you will find its all about governments which can not honor the deal of debts (bonds). It's not whether a government should raise debts, but if there's a plan to paid them back.

[Nikov]

I thought the whole point of low taxes is to be competitive on the international market. I mean, who cares if he pays lower percentage of his income if it causes his standard of living to decline at the end of the day?

Though I guess I might be wrong on the competitiveness thing, Germany has very high taxes and still they got a healthy trade surplus.

Tax rate is not directly linked to international trade or economic growth, its about redistributing wealth and resources for the benefit of the whole society.

So higher tax rates benefit the whole society?

[counting]

So higher tax rates benefit the whole society?

I don't think it's only related on the tax rate alone, but also on how government spending is used. (A lot of also related on how people view the taxes are for). Considered it as you are buying services from government, how much you are willing to pay is depend on how good the services are, and a society as a whole should be satisfied if they are balanced.

Generally people don't like direct taxes, hence there are many hidden forms of "taxes". They can be any kind of the government's debts (to you), or in a form as indirect tax which will be reflected as inflation. In a way, they provide founds for services that only governments (currently) can provide, like military protections, polices, public infrastructures etc. With higher price (tax), it should theoretically be improved, but there are just so many things can be done in public sectors, otherwise capitals should remain in the private sectors. (It's true for societies that private property is the foundation anyway. Hence why many northern Europe nations are called social democracy, because they valued public/private ratio higher than others, hence tolerate higher tax rates)

[PTTG??]

I thought the whole point of low taxes is to be competitive on the international market. I mean, who cares if he pays lower percentage of his income if it causes his standard of living to decline at the end of the day?

Though I guess I might be wrong on the competitiveness thing, Germany has very high taxes and still they got a healthy trade surplus.

Tax rate is not directly linked to international trade or economic growth, its about redistributing wealth and resources for the benefit of the whole society.

So higher tax rates benefit the whole society?

You think that the deficit spending and "trickle down economics" we've been following for the past decade have helped us? Look, I respect that you may have conservative leanings, and I understand that it can be chafing to be a political minority in a group, but you must see that low taxes for the wealthy is not working.

[Duuvian]

From what I've read here, and thanks Aqi and PTTG? for writing it.

Also I will use the word they (I have a tendancy to use that word to describe whoever the group of people are that are using their connections and money to do whatever nefarious thing I'm talking about; honestly I don't know who it is but I can see what is happening from their actions {see? makes me sound crazy but it's just because the rich bastard is sneaky in that the every man isn't aware of his name})

What I'm afraid of is that now after a decade of money going to the upper echelons of society, that the whole Tea Party thing was just a way to do something exactly like this to weaken the government and allow wealthy society to basically operate however their money (and now if the current US dollar is driven to worthlessness, their capital, which theoretically could include whatever communication network they have with others who have a lot of capital-power) allows them to. I'm afraid of this because whatever golden hallucination they may have of the barbarians (everyone not important to them) fighting outside while they are locked in their fortress is going to be shattered by the bloody reality.

Sure they might not have thought of it in 2000, but they've had a succession of plans where they successfully manage to manipulate the government into doing things their way. Money going to corporations while I don't qualify for enough help to move out of my parent's house. Money going to banks so they can put it overseas or into invisible stocks rather than tractors or buildings. Money going to universities so that they can force me to take mathematics classes far below my ability (which I tested out and in fact tested three courses above, which I took in High School, at which time it was assured to me that I would not have to do it again in College) so they can take even more money from the government.

All these things we the people have given the conservatives and their business. We have allowed them to put signs up for us to look at everywhere possible so in the off chance I might interested in their product I would be aware of it. This is fine. We allowed them to put those advertisements on our clothing, as those words dictate whether the clothing costs more and thus are for the more successful and thus a symbol of status. This is fine, as it gives people jobs and makes money for those people as well as the corporate entity. I can live with this. What I can not continue to live with is the way the conservative movement in America has wholeheartedly decided to use it's machinery to climb over me as a poor person, which is fine and acceptable and I won't hold them back. After all, if you are born with lemons, why not make lemonade? What makes it unacceptable is the way they grind their heel in and push and kick while climbing to make sure they stay at the top no matter what, even if it means kicking out any ladders that might have been put up.

Let me make a for example. If I were to get a group of talented young men together from a poor background (did this in 2005) and record their vocals onto mainstream beats (which are good, the muscians and ESPECIALLY the composers or whoever makes all those rap beats, those individuals are ok with me) because our vocals are better than the corporate crap at the time. We are not allowed to make money from this, which is fair as we did not contact the composer of the beat. However, the original composer is tied up in so much legalese that legal discussions would be so much of a gamble that it was not worth trying in that environment. This is because the music itself was from a poor person's culture and thus for some reason was looked upon poorly as the music of criminals and drug dealers and thus if you want to make it, you must be of ill-repute  in the courts, in which we have no friends and the industry does. Thus there is no possible way to do business. Your talent, worthless. Time invested, same.

So, that is the reason why nowadays lyrics and a tune are not interchangeable.

Now, I've become somewhat of a composer myself from the ground up, with no support from anyone thank you very much. Now I've got my own music and I can make it at will. Seriously, I can see where the saying adversity breeds strength in this case. The problem is finding the will because at some point I'm either going to have to deal with these same bastards that caused me all this hardship, or I'm going to have to ignore them and they naturally start trying to destroy me through their ability to pass legislation.

Now, the link below does not affect me, as I am a true composer. I put each note on a line and say this instrument plays this here now. Other people who I have no hard feelings towards as they simply specialize in other ways to make music (playing a different  instrument would be the traditional method) sample their music and warp the sound with digital effects. The industry has been passing laws to limit even that. It's not because someone is stealing their work, it's because they are manipulating laws that it's illegal. You can't say a song that's been reversed sounds the same as a song that goes forward. If there was ever an expert to consult on this, it would be me if I can be arrogant enough to say so after spending countless hours working on compositions that are designed to sound good both backwards and forwards. Yet these companies want you to think it's the exact same, and that it's a problem unless someone pays them money.


http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9555/the_canadian_dmca__the_actual_text__music__sony_rootkit_legalized/
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/93279/wikileaks-diplomatic-cable-us-pulled-the-strings-in-previous-canadian-dmca/

EDIT: I should say the only support I had was from the makers of Fruity Loops, since they made the software that I make music on, and for that I am grateful.

EDIT2: Meanwhile I'm of the opinion that the music that this great corporate entity pushes out tends to be musically sound but the message is warped.

EDIT3: The end result of being able to play my computer like a harpsichord or a trumpet or any other instrument, the ability to generate flawless notes at whatever pitch desired, the ability to be possibly the greatest musician ever, all this is ignored while I sit at my dad's farm chucking wood into a pile or pulling weeds because of the way the conservatives have shaped the economy. That's why in the next election I'm going to vote democratic. I think it's going to be a landslide.

Also, please show this post to other people. I am quite willing to sacrifice the limited anonymity I have if it leads to greater good.

EDIT4: Seriously. I'm sure someone who runs the world or news or at least has an impact reads this. If you want to help then help me because I'm sick of these bastards doing shenanigans and hurting us but them not getting burned. I'm about to seriously start a dwarf fort party just to say fuck you at the very least.

[Duuvian]

Do you think we have what it takes to be a legitimate party? I'd start work on a third party if we can organize it here globally.


That being the parties goal is not to raise money, it's entirely unimportant to us. The goal is to make this mother fucking government not be the farce that it is where the wealthy can do whatever they want becauses they have loopholes and money. I'm stuck on a farm pulling weeds working hard making music that will be remembered (I hope) for a thousand years, but these ass holes flying around in jets drinking expensive alcohol are grinding their heels on me.

EDIT: I don't know, but there needs to be an internet party for the people since the infrastructure is THERE

[Duuvian]

Really, it would only take three of us and only one of us has to have money for this to work. Dwarves in charge. No one wants to even start?

[DJ]

Back in 2000 we were told that we needed TEMPORARY tax cuts to get rid of the Clinton surplus

Why is surplus a bad thing? I mean, sure, if you got money just sitting around doing nothing you're wasting opportunities. But AFAIK USA still had debt during that time. Shouldn't times of surplus be used to pay off debt so you can borrow again when you need it without hitting the debt ceiling?

[RedKing]

Do you think we have what it takes to be a legitimate party? I'd start work on a third party if we can organize it here globally.

Admittedly, having a platform of "Mandatory magma baths for politicians" might prove immensely popular. As would the "free booze for everybody" plank.

[Duuvian]

No, no violence or rallying cries or any of that. What needs to be done is simply tell people what the fuck is about to happen because of these god damned politicians, and it's obvious which side it was that was causing it. However by this time people are so used to the two party system that there needs to be a kind of almost secret 3rd party (by secret I mean they are old and haven't used the internet much) that sides with the one who isn't fucking the entire world up. Or something.