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[Vector]

In the united states, cars are a necessity. We do not have any real public transport because for the last sixty years the entire service has been shunned as "low class".

We don't have any real public transport because GM and Ford actively destroyed it.

Here in California, anyway.

[Aqizzar]

There's also places like Dallas / Fort Worth, where you have a metropolis made of twenty distinct cities, each one with its own municipal transit policies and attitudes.  Dallas and Fort Worth themselves are the only ones with any real public transit, and rail stops are few and far between (often criticized that they have giant parking lots, because people have to drive to the stations they're so out of the way), because nobody wants a railroad in their neighborhood.  There are buses of course, but the schedules and routes are determined by the houses of the planets and the sobriety of the driver.  There are people at my job who commute by bus, and I salute them for their tenacity.  Even with no traffic to consider in the middle of the night, the buses are still so plodding and wandering that they turn a part-time job into full-time due to all the travel wait.

[GlyphGryph]

In the united states, cars are a necessity. We do not have any real public transport because for the last sixty years the entire service has been shunned as "low class".

I've lived in the United States for most of my life, and lived in plenty of places where owning a car was not necessary. (Though renting a car is an absurd fucking parody of hell when in the US so having a friend to borrow a car from for trips is very convenient) As a matter of fact, the only times I've owned a car was when I was living out of it, when I needed it to make the hour and a half commute to university each day or in the periods immediately before and after said periods of car-living. Right now I guess I sort of have a car in that I am going out with someone who has a car, but I honestly only borrow it for the rare nonessential but convenient tasks  like visiting my parents two states away, and I honestly wouldn't be much worse off without it.

Even for jobs that don't have car ownership as mandatory, which a great many do

What jobs would these be, exactly? Other than, like, pizza driver and stuff? Because I've got to be honest, I've never seen that as a requirement for any other jobs I've seen, especially not ones where people are making the sort of money we are discussing here.

Yeah, if I didn't have a car then it'd take me at least an extra hour to get to and from my job. That's in Cincinnati.

An hour walk or bike really isn't bad at all for a commute, I used to do an hour to/from the animal shelter I volunteered at, on top of my hour to/from work, all without suffering any major deprivation or indignities. Though I have had commutes of well over an hour driving, and I admit I couldn't have done those jobs without a car or relocating. So I guess this depends on what you are adding that time onto, I guess?

I will admit I've only lived in the eastern half of the US though. In the vast majority of cities and even suburbs I have lived in (which is only like 5), a car was not needed at all, but obviously there's exceptions. But to repeat: The whole point of my post was that without looking deeper into the situation it is very difficult to tell whether a car is a necessity or a luxury, and that for most people, a car is a bit of both.

Most commonly, though, they would be a convenience. A very good one, one with a lot of value to justify their cost, but something that is necessary for survival, or even for living in comfort. (In many situations)

[Spreggo]

I found this interview with Milton Friedman to be enlightening:
http://youtu.be/E1lWk4TCe4U

[Phmcw]

Friedman? If he was right, you would not have any problem right now.
Friedman, and his incorrect rebuttal of Keynes, is the main reason why you are going bankrupt.

[Spreggo]

At what point did the U.S. ever actually abandon Keynesian economics? Not even Reagan really did it, although backing off did allow for prosperity in the nineties. We've been intervening in markets non-stop and you blame Friedman, whose ideas were never actually implemented?

Sure, just keep turning knobs and see what happens. Keynesian economics is pure hubris.

[KaelGotDwarves]

GlyphGryph: Your assessment that you have only lived in on the Eastern half of the US and cars are less necessary is correct. I lived in Princeton, NJ and traveled throughout most of the North Eastern US.

Cars are indeed a requirement in most places and for most people in the US. If you look at population density, especially of the northeast, you'll find that everything is packed together much like Europe. Therefore markets, work, and such can be in bikeriding and public transport distance - because there is existing and profitable public transport.

Most of the US is spread out in suburban sprawl rather than the dense cities of the eastern coast. Hell, when I lived in the midwest you had to drive for ages to get to a commercial district. My school was 25 minutes away. We lived in a nice area. My father drove an hour to get to work there and back, over 2 hours. We did not want to live any closer to Chicago. Those were bad socio-economic towns.

In Utah, there were small towns with one big hub - Salt Lake City. If I didn't have friends who drove or couldn't drive, I would have actually gone insane or have faced internet/meth/or alcohol addiction. There was fuckall nothing out there within non-existant public transport limits. As it stands I taught myself how to spin fire out there and in the burbs of Chicago.

In norcal and around the pacific northwest, we have one of the best public transport systems in the US, and it's still laughably poor and convoluted compared to elsewhere in the world. BART and caltrain actually extends out to many suburbs out here, except for the ones where you're expected to have a car.

EDIT: I won't even go into how bad transportation is in socal and elsewhere in the southwest.

TL;DR - if you do not have a car or access to one, you cannot survive in most places in the US except major population centers. You will not be able to find a job to be able to afford a car either- which is a growing ironic situation I find more of my acquaintances in.

[Nadaka]

Whoa! CNN just announced negotiations on the debt limit have failed and economies around the world are already falling.

[Duke 2.0]

Whoa! CNN just announced negotiations on the debt limit have failed and economies around the world are already falling.

What do they mean by economies. If they mean markets then I imagine there are gonna be a ton of hype scares going on over this. Any news source could make a false statement about the USA rioting and taking over the White House and markets around the world will dip in anticipated fear.

 You need at least a day of something happening to know if it significant or not.

[Nadaka]

They literally made that announcements seconds before I typed it here.

They have now clarified that the asian markets that just opened are doing so dramatically lower than normal.

[Aklyon]

Even the Brits are calling them crazy now. But in British English.

[alway]

Time to party like it's 1929? >_<

Just talked to a Republican. According to him it's the Democrat's fault because they didn't do anything about it when they controlled congress.
Jaded... cynicism... rising.....  D:

[counting]

If politics don't decide, the markets will.

And it's open low, and falling all over Asia Stock. Except Indonesia, and Thailand (not open yet). Not much though, more like lack of confident, and people are watching. But the lack of any progress is also problematic news. Not a good sign for the investors. 

[Bauglir]

Well, fork. Hey, question. Is it wiser to leave my meager savings alone, convert them to another currency, or convert them to valuable goods? Probably the first, but hey, you never know.

[penguinofhonor]

Yeah, if I didn't have a car then it'd take me at least an extra hour to get to and from my job. That's in Cincinnati.

An hour walk or bike really isn't bad at all for a commute, I used to do an hour to/from the animal shelter I volunteered at, on top of my hour to/from work, all without suffering any major deprivation or indignities. Though I have had commutes of well over an hour driving, and I admit I couldn't have done those jobs without a car or relocating. So I guess this depends on what you are adding that time onto, I guess?

I will admit I've only lived in the eastern half of the US though. In the vast majority of cities and even suburbs I have lived in (which is only like 5), a car was not needed at all, but obviously there's exceptions. But to repeat: The whole point of my post was that without looking deeper into the situation it is very difficult to tell whether a car is a necessity or a luxury, and that for most people, a car is a bit of both.

Most commonly, though, they would be a convenience. A very good one, one with a lot of value to justify their cost, but something that is necessary for survival, or even for living in comfort. (In many situations)

My commute currently is a fifteen minute drive to a fifteen minute bus ride. It would be a 10 minute walk to a 45 minute long bus ride winding all the way through my city to get to the other side, where I'd probably have to leave the bus and get on the bus I drive to now.

It'd be at least an hour and a half of walking if I didn't have access to public transportation. And I couldn't ride my bike because there's no place to put one anywhere near my work. And I admire your willingness to volunteer, but that would make me be spending over 12 hours a day doing things about my job, combining my work hours with my commute.