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Hol-

-Derp

[EmperorNuthulu]

Of course.

[Stworca]

Well..

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 i have come up with this 25k build for the Seleucid.


I made the Cataphract a general, and increased their and chariot experience. Elephants don't need experience (and it costs TONS) after that there was only enough money to upgrade archers.

Myself - Regular Spaniard army with an extra cream on top in form of wardogs (I actually never had chance to use wardogs against eastern factions) Im experimenting with builds ya see.


And here is the battlefield.

Any objections? 

[Taricus]

Give the enemy enough money to upgrade the elephants to 9 EXP.

[EmperorNuthulu]

Well, knowing stworca he'll beserk the elephants, making them a weapon against the seleucid army. No objections for me.

[Stworca]

Well then, let me tell you that elephants and chariots are very, very unreliable units, and nearly never will do you any good against players.
We may have to give the Seleucid some monetary advantage, because the attempt i just now finished..

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And the end result..


In short.. Remember what happened to the 9/3/3 Urbans in the last video? (how they dropped like flies in a matter of seconds?)
Seleucid doesn't have the morale of Urbans. Not one of their infantry even got to us. One elephant group i managed to wipe out before the armies even met.

I now know that i could have lost <100 units, but i kind of sacrificed my cav and dogs to take down the elephants and their general. (I didn't know how tough the armored elephants will be.)

A fun fight, but the AI fares poorly in an army that is a mix of very slow and very fast units (phalanx + cavalry)

[Dsarker]

Stworca, how does a closed O formation work using hoplites/pikemen to form outside wall and archers in the middle? Good or bad?

[Stworca]

I'd advise against closed O, unless you face IMPOSSIBLE odds. A Tight C with strong infantry or cavalry on flanks has the benefit of LURING enemy cavalry exactly where you want it.

If there is one gap in the wall of phalanx, this is where the enemy cav will go.
Group your archers (and skirmishers if you use them. I did) and put some strong units in the back line. When enemy cav charges your flank focus fire with your archers and charge with the melee. They will break like a twig.

You may have already seen this pic ( i posted it somewhere in Armenia LP )
This setup was enough to wipe out 3 full roman stacks at once.


Archers start outside, and after two volleys move behind the hoplites. Heavy Peltasts are decent for the role of flank infantry, and have javelins too.
Ignore the siege weapons and pack more infantry.

The two generals were going all Dick Mountainjoy on the enemy each fight. Taking out onagers, balistas, archers, slingers, skirmishers.. In that order.

As for players.. I advise against all phalanx armies. The terrible maneuverability makes them an easy prey.

[Dsarker]

I was kind of thinking of the sort of strategy to use online against people using the whole lolurban stacks.

[Stworca]

Should you use a closed o formation, and i had urbans. I would surround you and toss javelins from all sides, but not at the hoplites that face me - Instead ones that face AWAY. Your armor does not matter, when a javelin stabs you in your side.
Followed by a massive charge at the weakest point, and your army is gone.

If at any moment you moved - charge and chain rout.
If you ever raised the spears - game over

That's theory of course, as i never faced a closed O phalanx army, but i'm nearly sure that it will work perfectly.

There is a reason for people to use Lolurban stacks. They are the easiest to play online.
(The multiplayer version of campaign Spartans..)

Edit : Nuthulu, you really do not want to see the replay. AI blows as Seleucid. Unless you want to implement some changes, it's a crushing victory and unimpressive fight.

[Heron TSG]

Is this last request my HURR DURR wardogs army?

[Stworca]

Is this last request my HURR DURR wardogs army?

Yeah. Unless someone pops by with more ideas 

I'll probably field flaming pigs or peasants against the dogs. DURR HURR

[Dsarker]

Oooh! Idea.


Two armies, all peasants.

[Stworca]

Oooh! Idea.


Two armies, all peasants.

3 stacks of Peasants can be routed by a single unit of Spartans. YOU do it 

[EmperorNuthulu]

Damn, I thought the elephants and chariots rampage would do a little damage. See the thing is, you're army is largely range, and having more firepower than the other team in RTW is often over looked. I mean, sure you can have super hoplites, but when you've got seventy gazillion missiles hitting you at once then you've lost. Heck the only thing I can think of that could beat your army is an entirely ranged force of gallic foresters, but you'll just cav rout it.

[Stworca]

Well, Hyo's Praetorian army did the trick.

As far as i see it armies have to be either walls or rams.
Either immovable defense or unstoppable force.

The Bulls + Fanatics / Generals + Merc Slingers army is a ram. They pack enormous shock force. You have to outmaneuver (Impossible for AI) outlast (9/3/3 Praetorian army did just that) or outshock such army to win (pack MORE damage)
It works for every army, really.