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[freeformschooler]

Vector, other than voting and correcting people you've been really quiet, I expected you to be much more aggressive, especially if you were a town. You haven't been pressing people much either.

Don't underestimate how much effort it takes to wrangle in you lot.

I am confused as to what you mean.

[Vector]

Vector, other than voting and correcting people you've been really quiet, I expected you to be much more aggressive, especially if you were a town. You haven't been pressing people much either.

I slept 4 hours last night and have been having nightmares for the past two or three weeks.  I also suddenly have a new teacher for my German course, who is far more demanding.

Let's just say that I'm too tired right now to do much more than corrections.  Sorry.  I imagine I will be much more angry tomorrow; however, at the moment I can't get enough signal in this noise to do much.

Currently I'm on "straighten stuff out" mode.  Then I will be in full-blown scumhunting mode.  I cannot do both simultaneously, because they have fundamentally different goals.

Really, it's mostly the sleep that's a problem right now.

Vector, other than voting and correcting people you've been really quiet, I expected you to be much more aggressive, especially if you were a town. You haven't been pressing people much either.

Don't underestimate how much effort it takes to wrangle in you lot.

Thank you, Jim =)

[Jim Groovester]

Don't underestimate how much effort it takes to wrangle in you lot.

I am confused as to what you mean.

Imagine you have a bunch of toddlers who each want to go do their own thing, and are pulling you in ten different directions, and trying to run off on their own, or trying to go play run in front of a bunch of cars.

Then think about how hard doing anything else besides keeping them out of trouble is.

This was an allegory. You were the toddlers.

[freeformschooler]

Also oh man I would like to keep playing into crunch time but my medicine is kicking in, I'm going to have to fall asleep.

Even if it has to be postponed til tomorrow, another question.

Max White: What is up with you just going away after you said something that sounded scummy here:

You know, I was thinking that what freeform said made sense, glad you were there to correct me on exactly how scum thinks.

Vector, other than voting and correcting people you've been really quiet, I expected you to be much more aggressive, especially if you were a town. You haven't been pressing people much either.

I slept 4 hours last night and have been having nightmares for the past two or three weeks.  I also suddenly have a new teacher for my German course, who is far more demanding.

Let's just say that I'm too tired right now to do much more than corrections.  Sorry.  I imagine I will be much more angry tomorrow; however, at the moment I can't get enough signal in this noise to do much.

Currently I'm on "straighten stuff out" mode.  Then I will be in full-blown scumhunting mode.  I cannot do both simultaneously, because they have fundamentally different goals.

Really, it's mostly the sleep that's a problem right now.

Fair enough. You are IC right now anyway.

[breadbocks]

Daaaaarviiiiii, I'm still waiting on that spoilspec.

[Flintus10]

This also applies to me as a Town. In fact, it applies to me in general. I have a habit of restating or attempting to back up other peoples' own points after they've said them -- this can be seen in any debate I'm in outside of this. I'm really trying to break out of this though, and you can see I'm getting better with my case against anzki4, even though a small portion of that was similar to what kilakan stated.

You are wrong, simply because trying to draw anything out of that is likely to end in a WIFOM.  Not to mention that the restatement part has already been addressed, but i am sure you will get to that.

Wait does that make what you just said about restatements a restatement.... ow my head.

Actually kilikan I would say you really handwaved him copying everything you do and he continued afterwards, his shot at Deadmeat for voting for me for lurking is one example.

Also did you really need to help freeform out here he was already trying to defend himself. You guys seem to be working pretty well together.

Deadmeat is making a lot of mistakes but I am finding it difficult to believe that with Webadict telling him what to do he could be slipping so easily so noob town is my current verdict. Although it’d be nice if one of the IC’s/experienced players could tell me whether or not that is a valid point.

I don't understand this?

Don't worry about it it is invalid not only because of what Vector has already said about WIFOME but also I just remembered that last game I played the two scum did not even bother listening to their IC anyways. So it is plenty possible that you are scum 

[Flintus10]

Kilakan is leagues more aggressive than anybody else but seems to at least be getting some kind of reaction. Still he is pretty experienced I think, so he is definitely not clear of any suspicion if that even needs to be said.

I missed this the first time, but let me say, don't piss off Vector.  Apparently Ironyowl is like a spiked frying pan, but I've never played with... him?  Her?  it? before anyways.

Ironyowl Please tell me if you are male or female so I know what to refer to you as.

Oh I know it can be far worse. If anything my comment reflects on how un-aggressive everyone else is.

And Freeformschooler You have definitely posted a lot and remained active but a lot of what you have said is either useless or the restatement of someone else’s point. Now correct me if I am wrong but that seems like the actions of a new scum player trying (and failing) to seem genuine does it not?

This also applies to me as a Town. In fact, it applies to me in general. I have a habit of restating or attempting to back up other peoples' own points after they've said them -- this can be seen in any debate I'm in outside of this. I'm really trying to break out of this though, and you can see I'm getting better with my case against anzki4, even though a small portion of that was similar to what kilakan stated.

It does not really apply to you as a town player because my point was that you are trying to make it seem like you are active and therefore not suspicious without actually really doing anything to hurt the scum. Even a newb town should know that the towns first priority is taking down the scum while it is the scum's first priority to look innocent.

[Meanmelter]

KilaKan, what are you thinking of Flintus10, now that he has arisen from his long slumber.

[Vector]

KilaKan, what are you thinking of Flintus10, now that he has arisen from his long slumber.

Probably better to ask the two people voting him, especially the one who was waiting around for him to start playing the game.

[IronyOwl]

KilaKan, what are you thinking of Flintus10, now that he has arisen from his long slumber.

You. Why aren't you asking more relevant questions? You've had some worthless bullshit, some irrelevant quips, and some scummy looking questions. There's been a pinch of decent questioning in there, but you didn't seem interested in doing anything with it.

Why so passive, scum? Don't you want to find out who's scum and who isn't? Then why aren't you asking things that let you figure out how other players are thinking? What is asking the vaguest question ever about a lurker/late to the party guy going to let you know about either of them?

[Meanmelter]

Well jeez, not like there is much I can ask without someone clearly finding a way around it.
But if you really insist on me asking others stuff that aren't going to tell me anything anyway. But hey, why not? Right? Right...

Max White I dunno why, but everytime I see this it just screams your I.D. says Mr.Scum on it.
Also, anzki4 how do you feel I found your partner in crime here?

[IronyOwl]

Well jeez, not like there is much I can ask without someone clearly finding a way around it.
But if you really insist on me asking others stuff that aren't going to tell me anything anyway. But hey, why not? Right? Right...

Doesn't matter. You want scum, you go catch them yourself. How did you think you were going to play if your questions are worthless no matter what? How can you say you've found scum with an assertion like that?

Max White I dunno why, but everytime I see this it just screams your I.D. says Mr.Scum on it.
Also, anzki4 how do you feel I found your partner in crime here?

No, bad, wrong. What's Max going to say? That's not even a question. Ask him something about it, don't just call him scum and sit there.
Also no bad wrong, FoSing anzki with a probably worthless question. In a beginner's game, maybe- maybe he'll screw up. But it's a beginner's game, so even if he does screw up badly, he might be noobtown instead of noobscum. Don't you have anything you actually want to ask him? What he thinks of X, what he'd do in Y, something that lets you know whether he's scum or town?

Let me lead by example:

Meanmelter, please restate your case on anzki. It sounds like you're just parroting my mention of him.

[Meanmelter]

Well jeez, not like there is much I can ask without someone clearly finding a way around it.
But if you really insist on me asking others stuff that aren't going to tell me anything anyway. But hey, why not? Right? Right...

Doesn't matter. You want scum, you go catch them yourself. How did you think you were going to play if your questions are worthless no matter what? How can you say you've found scum with an assertion like that?

I'm sure they will trip over their own shoe-laces eventually? Besides, they can easily act way to townie which is a huge open sign to me that they are scum. Your just totally implying I should ask questions all day. Which, isn't going to help me scumhunt if I can't even make up a good one. I'm no interrogator.

Max White I dunno why, but everytime I see this it just screams your I.D. says Mr.Scum on it.
Also, anzki4 how do you feel I found your partner in crime here?

No, bad, wrong. What's Max going to say? That's not even a question. Ask him something about it, don't just call him scum and sit there.
Also no bad wrong, FoSing anzki with a probably worthless question. In a beginner's game, maybe- maybe he'll screw up. But it's a beginner's game, so even if he does screw up badly, he might be noobtown instead of noobscum. Don't you have anything you actually want to ask him? What he thinks of X, what he'd do in Y, something that lets you know whether he's scum or town?

Let me lead by example:

Meanmelter, please restate your case on anzki. It sounds like you're just parroting my mention of him.

There is plenty he could say. He could just simply say he isn't scum and come back with an argument saying I am scum, though that would be scum to vote back now wouldn't it.  And No it's not a question, but it surely is pressuring isn't it. Or is Vote Pressuring now not allowed?
Also, that example isn't a question, it's a statement. Perhaps if you made it more questioning.

[Deadmeat1471]

KilaKan, what are you thinking of Flintus10, now that he has arisen from his long slumber.

Probably better to ask the two people voting him, especially the one who was waiting around for him to start playing the game.

I'll have a closer look later, he is obviously sly, even if he were a scumbag it wouldnt be evident at first.

[IronyOwl]

I'm sure they will trip over their own shoe-laces eventually? Besides, they can easily act way to townie which is a huge open sign to me that they are scum.

So wait, they're so incompetent that they'll undoubtedly reveal themselves on their own, but so cunning they can't possibly be revealed through questioning? Make up your mind, and then realize that there wouldn't be a game if either of those were true.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "act way too townie" or why that's going to happen on its own or with the statements you've been given. Please step me through the process of a scum acting way too townie and being caught for it.

Your just totally implying I should ask questions all day. Which, isn't going to help me scumhunt if I can't even make up a good one. I'm no interrogator.

The only way to get better, aside from realizing why you need to do so, is practice. "Can't scumhunt, so not going to" is both untrue and suspiciously passive.

There is plenty he could say. He could just simply say he isn't scum and come back with an argument saying I am scum, though that would be scum to vote back now wouldn't it.

First of all, scumtells aren't quite the same thing as being scum. This is especially true because many scumtells are only such when they're unjustified or done a certain way- voting you because you're attacking him with garbage arguments isn't scummy, for instance.

Secondly, this is the long, pointless, slow way to go about it. "You're scum, Max." "No, I'm not." Great. Thrilling conversation. What's your next response? "No, you totally are."? What response could he give that's both useful and not a supposed scumtell?

And No it's not a question, but it surely is pressuring isn't it. Or is Vote Pressuring now not allowed?

Pressure is worthless if it's not focused, because there's nothing to be done about it. If I vote someone and then lurk, they're not going to be all concerned because oh my god IronyOwl's found me. They're going to suspect me for being a lurking douche. If you vote someone without asking questions, it's basically the same thing, as far as they're concerned.

Or, let me rephrase it this way- what's Max supposed to be scared of or pressured by, and what's he going to do about it? If your arguments are crap or nonexistent, he can't really be concerned that you've realized he's scum or are going to convince everyone to lynch him, because there's no way for you to do either. If you're not asking questions with it, he can't be concerned that you're going to find him out or get him lynched, because once again there's no way you can.

You've got no questions and no real arguments, so why is your vote something to be feared? What's going to get him spooked? What aspect is going to make him start panicking because he's scum?

Also, that example isn't a question, it's a statement. Perhaps if you made it more questioning.

Now you're telling me about statements not being questions? You've got a lot of snark or you're a shameless hypocrite, but regardless, I would think "please restate your case on anzki" would translate to "Meanmelter, why do you suspect anzki again?" rather easily. Why were you more concerned about being stubborn or snarky than about answering the question and pressing your case? Don't you want an opportunity to explain to everyone why anzki is totally scum?