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Author Topic: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission  (Read 1488006 times)

Graknorke

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I can orbit fine, though I do have a problem getting any further than the Mun, maybe Minmus.
I always end up building something too big and it breaks apart some time during launch, or alternatively is so large and inefficient that it can't actually make orbit.

I would utilise docking, but I usually forget RCS because I never use it normally.
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alexandertnt

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Post some images of the rockets and let people have a look at what the problem is.

Don't forget either, you can never have enough struts.
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Putnam

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I make ugly-ass rockets, but the rockets I make to get to the moon can make it all the way to eve.

Graknorke

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Post some images of the rockets and let people have a look at what the problem is.

Don't forget either, you can never have enough struts.
It's no particular single design, it just happens consistently.

And there's only so many places you can fit struts.
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Putnam

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Post some images of the rockets and let people have a look at what the problem is.

Don't forget either, you can never have enough struts.
And there's only so many places you can fit struts.

I can tell you now that this is wrong

if you run out of places, add some fuel tanks and connect struts to those

alexandertnt

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It's no particular single design, it just happens consistently.

And there's only so many places you can fit struts.

If it is still structually unstable, you should add struts until it looks like it has been infested by giant cave spiders. Go crazy.

You can also use the stronger struts from the KW rocketry pack that will allow you to use less of them. It also helps performance.
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This is when I imagine the hilarity which may happen if certain things are glichy. Such as targeting your own body parts to eat.

You eat your own head
YOU HAVE BEEN STRUCK DOWN!

Starver

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And there's only so many places you can fit struts.

If you're having difficulties putting struts into seemingly 'internal' areas of structure, e.g. if you have wobbly side-nacelles, such as in the following design with "=" decouplers near the top...
.   A
.   =
. H=H=H
. H H H  A set of two, three, four, six or
. H H H  (for smaller diameter outer tank-stacks
. H H H   around a larger central stack) eight
. H H H  external boosters attached to
. H H H  the core,...
. ^ ^ ^

..then you may find there's a distinct wobble at the bottom end that causes chaos and fiery, fiery death.  But even if you're using the tightest of packings (six similarly-sized stack diameters around a core, or eight smaller ones around a larger one), you should be able to easily zoom-in and rotate in such a way that you can get a strut started on the core adjacent to the side-stack and then attempt to put the terminating end on the outside of that stack, and it will connect to (roughly) the adjacent bit of the inside, where it's difficult (although often still not impossible) to directly place it.

It doesn't have to be exact, though.  Also, sending struts from the mid-way point on the central stack (that is clearly visible) in the gap between adjacent external stacks) to both those adjacent stacks is a very solid proposition.

I don't have any handy images at hand of (past) creations, but struts are just so easy to place that sometimes I feel I've gone overboard.

(But, especially when my staging is set up to eject 'partial shells' of outer stacks at a time (opposing pairs in each instance, for balance), with more than one external shell, it is absolutely vital that at each stage the boosters that remain are solidly strutted every-which-way.  If you (as a quick example of the principle) set up a swastika-like arrangement of boosters-on-boosters-on-core then you'll get rotation kicking in, unless you prevent the outermost boosters from forcing the inner-boosters to rotate slightly with their connection.  It is perfectly possible to build a craft that discards successive boosters that has a very tightly-knit strut-structure.

      Detatching links                Fully strutted links
            4---5---6                         4---5---6            (As well as
           / \   \ /|                        /|\ /|\ /|\            long vertical
          3---8---9 | 1                     3-+-8-+-9-+-1           links "|", also
         /   / \ /  |/ \                   /|\|/|\|/|\|/|\          long diagonals
        2---7---O---7---2                 2-+-7-+-O-+-7-+-2         e.g. between
         \ /|  / \ /   /                   \|/|\|/|\|/|\|/          0 and 3 or
          1 | 9---8---3                     1-+-9-+-8-+-3           6 and 8.)
            |/ \   \ /                       \|/ \|/ \|/
            6---5---4                         6---5---4



(Also showing most of the fuel links along each 1->2->3->4...etc->0 spiral, to feed early-drop booster-stacks' fuel contents into the next most expendable fuel-stack along the line, to keep every engine (all started at stage 1) burning bright as long as possible.)

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IronyOwl

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3592 on: February 01, 2013, 12:59:27 am »

So, been trying out the demo a bit. Reached a new milestone today- I figured out that achieving orbit wasn't just a matter of distance, you had to actually get your trajectory right. Which I did, until I kept going, eventually flinging my kerbals into the endless void.

Oops. Still, quite an accomplishment.
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ank

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3593 on: February 01, 2013, 06:03:00 am »

So, been trying out the demo a bit. Reached a new milestone today- I figured out that achieving orbit wasn't just a matter of distance, you had to actually get your trajectory right. Which I did, until I kept going, eventually flinging my kerbals into the endless void.

Oops. Still, quite an accomplishment.

Whenever a bell rings, it means another person has figured out that orbit does not mean up.
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Anvilfolk

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3594 on: February 01, 2013, 06:31:45 am »

So, been trying out the demo a bit. Reached a new milestone today- I figured out that achieving orbit wasn't just a matter of distance, you had to actually get your trajectory right. Which I did, until I kept going, eventually flinging my kerbals into the endless void.

Oops. Still, quite an accomplishment.

The newer version makes everything much easier - it provides lots of visual tools for what's happening. Tons of useful! I know it's getting more expensive, but it really is worth getting at this point. Just the addition of docking has blown my mind from the sheer number of things you can do. And I haven't even gotten to modding.

Dutchling

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3595 on: February 01, 2013, 06:54:01 am »

How do you keep rockets from falling over during ascent without MechJeb's Smart A.S.S. :c?
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forsaken1111

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3596 on: February 01, 2013, 07:06:43 am »

How do you keep rockets from falling over during ascent without MechJeb's Smart A.S.S. :c?
You steer...

use SAS modules or fins to increase your ability to turn.
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Mini

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3597 on: February 01, 2013, 07:28:11 am »

Also ASAS, if keeping steady manually is too much work.
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Skyrunner

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3598 on: February 01, 2013, 07:32:56 am »

The newer version makes everything much easier - it provides lots of visual tools for what's happening. Tons of useful! I know it's getting more expensive, but it really is worth getting at this point. Just the addition of docking has blown my mind from the sheer number of things you can do. And I haven't even gotten to modding.
The above so much. O_O
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Starver

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Re: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission
« Reply #3599 on: February 01, 2013, 02:25:05 pm »

For my stability handling:

Below the in-line capsule-detatcher (last stage) I put a SAS.  Atop either all or half of any further stages (whether in-line, or side-mounted, and depending on what I plan to junk and when during the staging process) I put a SAS.  An ASAS somewhere in the mix helps, I suppose.  (And I'm talking standard parts only, here.)

Press E before igniting, and you're bound to stay pointing straight up as long as you want.  (Even, if you forget to stage or haven't provided enough thrust, while rapidly falling back down tail-first.  Sometimes the exploding stack below has successfully 'buffered' the capsule and let it land safely, but that's never been part of my plan. ;))  But, anyway, my setup generally would keep the launch going straight up as long as I wish.  I've built rockets powerful enough, with configurations such as already described in ASCII, that a well-timed launch gets me into a decent solar orbit by just going straight past Mun's orbit.  In fact, once it was straight past Mun, (in and out of its influence, with a hardly curving orbital segment whilst flying through the sphere of influence), skimming that particular hunk of rock.  But that was probably overkill in all respects (except for the "kill" part, they'd probably be drifting still, if I'd let 'em).


For an orbit, however, I tend to wait until exiting the lower-coloured layer of atmosphere, on the gauge, disengage SAS for a moment and touch the controls to allow the heading to 'fall' over onto the 270 degree (or 90 degree!) mark maybe 15 degrees off of verticalm before re-establishing SAS's attempt to hold.  Depending on the ship design, natural forces may force it further down, so I may adjust back to a more vertical angle of attempt.  As it gets higher (and this bit I consider more an art than a science) I disengage for a few moments and allow it to lay flatter and flatter (sometimes needs a bit of control, but generally while continue its declination for the few moments I allow it), but I like to get it out of all atmosphere altogether before taking it down to more than 45 degrees from vertical/less than that to the horizontal.

Of course, controlling the ship from the orbit POV screen (with the horizonball controll up, so that you can both see what it's doing and re-aim it, to whatever extent you actually can) is a useful thing to do, although I do like to see it from the ship-cam perspective to keep an eye on the structure, see when stages are defuelled, etc, so switching back and forth is quite common at this stage of the game.

Once in the 'black' part of the atmosphere gauge, it's a matter of fine-tuning to get a totally non-atmospheric track.  It may be a matter of heaving the craft to horizontal and thrusting as much as possible, it's sometimes even a matter of aiming down between 0 and 30 degrees and thrusting to one degree or another, to try and convert some unwanted rising component of a super-orbital parabola into a largely 'horizontal' component of usefully non-atmosphere-skimming orbit.

But I know there are better ways of doing it.  However, my failures to achieve orbit (or surpass it, if that's the plan/accident) tend to be structural failure issues (rare, given the strutting, unless I've overloaded some connector on the pad itself) or just forgetting to make sure there's all the engines/fuel that I want in the first few stages.
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