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Author Topic: Kerbal Space Program: Now Hiring Optimistic Astronauts for Dangerous Munission  (Read 1508544 times)

zchris13

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That is amazing. You just need more thrust on those solid rocket boosters. Also don't try to take off until the solid rocket boosters have run out of fuel.

Try this. http://wikisend.com/download/807902/Hilarity II.craft

Or even better, just try like 9 solid roket boostars all next to each other. It's wonderful. If you really want to have fun, put wings on it.
For MAXIMUM fun put on parachutes on top of all the boostars

ROCKAT.craft
just click go. OOps I forgot to put parachutes on all the boosters.

I just hit the command center. Directly. Yes. Win. Game over, people go home.

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« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 02:16:26 pm by zchris13 »
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see? now the AP will change very slowly compared to the first launch (slowly because you can't be infinitely precise, otherwise it would not be changing at all) while your PE will raise dramatically. keep burning on even if you see that strange things will happen to AP and PE: that is when the PE raises above AP so they change points.

congratulation! now you are in orbit and you did your first actual orbital maneuver!

now this should make sense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

That was an excellent tutorial LoS. Can you explain how to do it more efficently? I know it is better to go at less than 100% thrust at some points, but I don't know when.

I need to update my game and play again.

LoSboccacc

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That was an excellent tutorial LoS. Can you explain how to do it more efficently? I know it is better to go at less than 100% thrust at some points, but I don't know when.

I need to update my game and play again.


well, first thing, you need a target: without a target to reach, you won't know how to reach it!

say, your flight pat has three objective: one orbit at 100k, one orbit at 500k, reentry.

now that we have an objective, we can plan how to do it with the least fuel usage. note that this will not be 'the best method evar' because, for that, you'll need a proper navigation computer, while we're doing stuff by hand

now, the easiest way to change your orbital parameters in a manually controllable, low cost manner is that hohmann transfer: to change periapsis you burn at apoapsis and vice versa. you may already have spotted the problem with this: you can raise and lower them, but not move them around. as it's not relevant to our current mission profile, I'll just ignore the problem.

having a tested and true method for orbital changes, we need only to resolve the problem of leaving atmosphere.

the problem here is that drag will cost you fuel, and balancing that drag is difficult because it increases exponentially with speed, decrease linearly with altitude and, overall, increase the more you are in the atmosphere.

the only problem is that while light rocket may benefit from partial trust larger rocket will need all the thrust available because of their higher mass: you still need to get out fast from the atmosphere but large rocket acceleration is low. also, if you're using booster in the first stage thrust management option is just not there.

so, go for 100%, it's not the best way but is good enough for all intended purposes.

now, what about direction?

in a theoretical world where you have an engine with infinite power you want to act independently on vertical and horizontal speed

1 - shoot the rocket at start with the speed (think of it as controlling the craft inertia) so that your perfectly vertical trajectory goes up to 100km and then falls back.

2 - at 100km, the moment your vertical speed gets to 0, turn on your engine and get to the exact horizontal speed you need to be orbiting.

now, the only real problem with this is step 2: using a real engine, changing your speed from 0 to orbital speed 3000km/s takes a lot of time

so, this is why we want to start gaining horizontal speed early on: first, we will reach AP already with a good horizontal speed, so instead of having to accelerate from 0 to 3000 we will have to accelerate from, say, 1500 to 3000; second, we will be around the AP altitude for longer than if we were just going up vertically.

this second point may not seem intuitive at first, but you have to keep in mind that gravity at that scale is no longer vertical, but centripetal and altitude is no longer constant if you fly absolutely straight

now, it gets tricky to do it mathematically: the more you burn horizontally, the faster you get there and the longer you have to do your burn, but you will use a lot of fuel inefficiently. you want to get there with the least speed that leaves you a comfortable but tight margin.

this depends from a lot of factor, because each rocket has it's own acceleration profile. also, we can't exactly measure our horizontal and vertical speed separately at this point, so we need to approach the problem holistically.

just start with a basic, standard profile, and then tune it up for the rocket: if you get at 100k and have not enough time to do your burn, you'll need more horizontal speed. otherwise, you may climb next time at a steeper angle.

this is what I use to start tuning the rockets: climb up vertically in the first atmosphere, climb up at 70° in the second atmosphere, climb up at 30° in the third atmosphere, fly at 0° after that. keep checking the map to see when the AP reach your insertion point (100k) and remember that X turn off the engine giving you precise control over your burns.

at any time you see the AP at 100km, shut off engine and prepare for your circularization burn. when you are a bit before the AP, get horizontal, turn on engines, go to the map view and cut off engines when PE gets at 100km

how can we do this with the best precision available to our instruments? the vertical speed indicator, near the altimeter, helps you greatly. when it's 0, you're perfectly at AP/PE. note however that it has a logarithmic scale so if you're warping around, you may overshoot it badly. you'll get used to it :D

now do your orbit. when you're at AP again (note: when the orbit is circular, AP/PE are almost arbitrary, so don't get too worried about doing an exact orbit for now)

now, it's time to climb at 500k. the most efficient way is to burn from PE to raise AP first, then from AP to raise PE, but it will also work the other way around (but using more fuel) as the orbit is nearly circular, it doesn't really matter this time.

do your orbit. to reenter, we need to do the same hohmann stuff, but in reverse. burning toward the planet will do you no good, as altitude is circular, you're just gaining speed. if you don't believe me, do your downward burn but from the map view and see what happens to your orbit.

what we need here is to wait for AP, then, instead of accellerating toward the orbit direction, burn against it. open the map, and you'll see your PE lowering dramatically.

to use less fuel, you don't need to get it exactly to 0. you can just get it somewhat within the atmosphere and let the atmosphere stop you. the lower you aim, the less time it will take. get the PE at around 60km and shut off the engines. stay on the map view: you'll see that the atmosphere slowed you down, but you won't probably be falling down yet: this is the concept of gradually breaking using the top atmosphere layer: uses less fuel and heats up less your capsule (not that it matters right now, still..)

land, and pat yourself on the back! you've learned almost everything you need to do the same, but around the Mun

some more note that weren't fit for the mission profile:

rotating the apoapsis where you want (say, rotating it of 45deg) is hard without a navigation computer, but you may: circolarize your orbit, then slow where you want your AP/accellerate where you want your PE

it may be useful, while on the launchpad, to go on the map and see where on kearth the launchpad is. the location is pretty easy to spot from the map view once you know where it is, and its useful to know where in the orbit you are. the purple thing on the navpall indicates the space center, but I just find it difficult to use it reliably.

to all actual rocket engineers out there: yes, I know, it wasn't the more exact of the space mechanics. it will do, nevertheless.


 











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Sirus

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My latest design managed to get me quite high, though I didn't quite manage orbit. Two rings of solid boosters surrounding three fuel tanks + liquid booster managed to propel my capsule to around 80km, and I (eventually) landed far out to sea. I need to learn how to steer the rocket better, because even turning off the SAS I still had to maintain constant pressure to fly any direction but straight "up".
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My latest design managed to get me quite high, though I didn't quite manage orbit. Two rings of solid boosters surrounding three fuel tanks + liquid booster managed to propel my capsule to around 80km, and I (eventually) landed far out to sea. I need to learn how to steer the rocket better, because even turning off the SAS I still had to maintain constant pressure to fly any direction but straight "up".

This should be more than enough to get you into orbit. Do you drop the SRB after they burn out? Are you running full throttle?

When you are transitioning from straight up to horizontal, it is best to click SAS off, point yourself in the desired directly, and then click it back on.

Sirus

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Tried it again, did much better (despite blowing up some of the engines). Got to 132km and landed off the coast of the next continent. I think the problem this time (exploding engines aside) was that I tried to shift into orbit before I totally left the atmosphere, and had to fight against drag whilst accidentally pointing towards the ground once or twice. Will try again later.
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kcwong

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This is my first rocket to establish orbit and reach the Mun.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1 Adv. SAS, 4 SAS, 2 RCS fuel, 4 thruster pods. RCS and SAS turned on while below 10km.
1st stage is 8 liquid engines on the outside (3 fuel tanks each); I used this stage to shoot up vertically.
2nd stage is the lower 5 liquid engines in the middle (2 fuel tanks each). I started tilting gradually after 10km.

I made it into orbit near the end of 2nd stage. The last stage's single tank is used to adjust orbit to reach the Mun. Once I get better at adjusting my orbit I should be able to make it back to Kerbin with that.
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Aklyon

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How do you use the RCS?
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Sirus

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My best flight to date:

Altitude: 257,767m
Top Speed: 2,509m/s
Ground Distance: 1,919,396m

I was SO CLOSE to achieving at least one orbit of Kearth/Kerbin/whatever. Not sure if the angle for the final stage was wrong, or if I was burning too much/not enough/at the wrong times, but I got a little over halfway around the planet according to the blue circle on the map screen.
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Fishbreath

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My best flight to date:

Altitude: 257,767m
Top Speed: 2,509m/s
Ground Distance: 1,919,396m

I was SO CLOSE to achieving at least one orbit of Kearth/Kerbin/whatever. Not sure if the angle for the final stage was wrong, or if I was burning too much/not enough/at the wrong times, but I got a little over halfway around the planet according to the blue circle on the map screen.

You don't need so much altitude. You can orbit comfortably at 100km, unless they've made Kerbin bigger since the last time I played. :P

Peewee

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How do you use the RCS?
Default keys are IJKLHN if I recall correctly.

Sirus

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My best flight to date:

Altitude: 257,767m
Top Speed: 2,509m/s
Ground Distance: 1,919,396m

I was SO CLOSE to achieving at least one orbit of Kearth/Kerbin/whatever. Not sure if the angle for the final stage was wrong, or if I was burning too much/not enough/at the wrong times, but I got a little over halfway around the planet according to the blue circle on the map screen.

You don't need so much altitude. You can orbit comfortably at 100km, unless they've made Kerbin bigger since the last time I played. :P
That's why I think I may have been at the wrong angle. For most of my final rocket, I was mostly boosting at an "upward" angle. Should I be boosting more parallel to the ground or even slightly down?
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Criptfeind

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My best flight to date:

Altitude: 257,767m
Top Speed: 2,509m/s
Ground Distance: 1,919,396m

I was SO CLOSE to achieving at least one orbit of Kearth/Kerbin/whatever. Not sure if the angle for the final stage was wrong, or if I was burning too much/not enough/at the wrong times, but I got a little over halfway around the planet according to the blue circle on the map screen.

You don't need so much altitude. You can orbit comfortably at 100km, unless they've made Kerbin bigger since the last time I played. :P
That's why I think I may have been at the wrong angle. For most of my final rocket, I was mostly boosting at an "upward" angle. Should I be boosting more parallel to the ground or even slightly down?

Basically: Yes. Once you get some height open up the map thing with m and orbiting Kerbin is a cake walk. Just flip down parallel and boost until you get the orbit.
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Sirus

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What about thrust once you get that high? Full burn, barely any, somewhere in between?
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Criptfeind

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I normally turn it off, spin myself in the direction I want to go, then full burn. Actually, most of the time my second stage ends at about the rightish time anyway, so I just detach that then spin in the direction I want to go, then start my third stage. Once I am making only minor adjustments to heading to smooth out my orbit I allow it to keep burning. But I never allow first stage or second stage (my two most powerful stages) to get any burn when I am turning, because it is too easy for those two to royally fuck me up.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 02:23:18 am by Criptfeind »
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