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[Ukrainian Ranger]

I understand what you say, but then the best way to gain influence is to gather, disassemble and sell parts,  then gather disassemble and sell parts crafting is clearly inferior. But even that isn't the biggest problem

The current system does try to promote a pyramid method of crafting, instead of someone just gathering and keeping everything until they have 10 items, and then saying, I craft it all together. I think of it as being more realistic, as putting together something piece by piece over time, makes more sense than shoving everything together instantly.

Step by step? Pyramid? Do you really think so?  OK. Simple example: I made serrated disks as a step to serrated disk trap, but I sold it after good rolls. Why? Because crafting from the disks will net me -12 influence on average (IF the roll is successful) Surely, I may ignore influence loss and just craft good item, but I want influence

Second example: I briefly considered to craft a fort from the concrete foundations, the laser turret and the flamethrower but it's a guaranteed loss of influence and I decided against making a cool item

Another example: I didn't teach dwarven ballad to 3 songswords, I taught one. Why? Because crafting with one sword (20 influence)  will grant  me +90 influence on average, crafting with 3 swords (59 influence)  will grant me +70 influence on average.

It's beneficial to split stack. It's beneficial to use as cheap components as possible. If your goal is influence It's just stupid to improve already crafted items, yes players can ignore the math and just roleplay, but...


I have several constructive ideas and I'll write it later, after my last action in the cycle

[Haika]

I think maybe the issue here is the change in this game with the inventory costs. Before, you got influence based on what you crafted or gathered(or traded). The inventory cost helps to control the amount of stuff people have to use, but without the gear to spend influence on, not sure what else there is for influence beyond points, and roleplay.

I'd say having fun and roleplaying is a big part of this game. The system just needs a few more tweaks.

[Haika]

Current World:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

44
Outside the portal you see a large vertical sink hole. Above you, the plant-covered cave walls extend up several dozen feet, eventually opening to bright sky. A thin trail of water forms an impressive looking waterfall as a brook or stream empties into the darkness below you.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
Gallery:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

~ Molded Gasoline Flame Thrower ~ [195] Astor the weaponsmith (Ukrainian Ranger.cycle 2)
This flame thrower is made from reformed and molded pieces of disected car parts. The main of the tank is a gastank from the vehicle, and the hose leading to the metal nossle is a long fuel line. Complete with straps to hold the tank on the back of it's user, this weapon is great for roasting marshmallows with only a small amount of gasoline flavor.

~ Heavy Laser Tripod Mounted Little ol' Number ~ [262] Astor the weaponsmith (Ukrainian Ranger.cycle 2)
This automated defense turret is mounted on a two foot tall three-legged tripod. The main body is a red box, with a weapon muzzle sticking out of one side. The turret has a guidance system that rivals the best tracking ever invented, and somehow it was made from a simple laser rifle, and a car radiator. You should be very glad it is safely here in the gallery, where it cannot be pointed at you.

~ Soul Powered Corpse Car ~ [155] Murdoc the Necromancer (Weirdsound.cycle 2)
Living flesh is stretched over this car frame. A jumble of hands, feet, arms, and legs make fleshy wheels, and the engine is a composite of internal organs. A metal frame can be seen from time to time, as the shifting flesh moves. The souls of the people used to create the monstrerous transport moan and groan at their torment.

~ 1 Boatmurdered(tm) acidic, toon songsword ~ [107] Astor the weaponsmith (Ukrainian Ranger.cycle 2)
This sword is a living toon. The rubbery gleam of toon metal shines a fairly sharp brown-green and drips a bit with green fluid. This relates the fact that the weapon has been imbued with an acidic nature. The toon face on the sword, sings in a deep bass voice about the greatness of a Dwarven Fort named Boatmurdered. The tales of the deadly elephants and halls full of miasma could bring a tear to even the most stalwart dwarf's eye.

Player List:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

- Cycle 2:
Ukrainian Ranger
Weirdsound
Zaerosz
PyroDesu
- Cycle 3:
Toaster
EagleV
TherosPherae
Firelordsky
- Cycle 4:

Hibernating Creators:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

mcclay:

134 Influence
Regaulius the techmarine.
Exoskeleton Engineer 1 [0/100]
Scrapyard [53/100]
- One Spacesteel Repair Hull [51]

Geen:

86 Influence
GE-6S3-B82 the Bio-crafter
Genetic Engineering 1 [0/100]
Bio Fusion [81/100]
Collection [58/100]
- one 10-headed giant cicada [91]
- baby purple space whale [95]

GATHER again.

82
75
30-75=1
The cave beckons. You do your little jump into the depths, and walk around exploring a bit. You even cloak your eyes with your power to see clearly in the dark, and give sonar type images of the surrounding rock. That's when you find it, apparently there was a collapse somewhere, and someone who was exploring the cave was killed. Moving the rock aside, you manage to recover the now bleached skeleton, along with the climbing gear and equipment. Most of the poor soul's clothing is gone, but many pieces of plastic and metal remain from their climbing and hiking gear.
+82 scavenge exp
+ 1 Dead Explorer Remains [75]

Put Boatmurdered(tm) acidic, toon songsword in gallery.  (107 may be a bit low for the gallery, but I don't want to risk with further crafting)

Mix two gallons of gastric acid, 4qts of pastel lavender paint [89] and 1/2 gallon of windshield wiper fluid [68] in an attempt to make stronger acid

Into the Gallery the acidic sword goes.
~ 1 Boatmurdered(tm) acidic, toon songsword ~ [107] Astor the weaponsmith (Ukrainian Ranger.cycle 2)
This sword is a living toon. The rubbery gleam of toon metal shines a fairly sharp brown-green and drips a bit with green fluid. This relates the fact that the weapon has been imbued with an acidic nature. The toon face on the sword, sings in a deep bass voice about the greatness of a Dwarven Fort named Boatmurdered. The tales of the deadly elephants and halls full of miasma could bring a tear to even the most stalwart dwarf's eye.
You purchase the Lavender Paint, the windshield wiper fluid, and add it to some of your acid. (-157 influence)
79
28
45+28+3+34+44=154
With a snap of your fingers, several beakers and vials appear in your work station. Another snap produces a pair of goggles, some thick rubber gloves, and a white lab coat. You set to work to chemically adjust your fluids together attempting to make a strong acid from these fluids. The paint isn't very acidic, but there is a nice color there, and while the wiper fluid is a bit caustic, fusing it with the gastric acid makes it even more so. The final product is a dark lavender ooze that melts through several containers as you are working with it.
+79 Chemical engineering exp
+ 3 gallons dark-lavender acid [154]
- 2 gallons of gastric Acid [6]
- 1/2 gallon of windshield wiper fluid [68]
- 4qts of pastel lavender paint [89]

Eh. I've gotta try again. Don't want to finish the cycle with only one real creation.

Undeadify the gore being if it isn't undead already, combine with toon appliances to create Toon Zombie Gorebot! Don't use all the appliances, set a few boxes(3) aside for future projects.

12 (oddly, the same exact roll this time around... at least it's not a crit fail )
This time you decide to wait on killing the humanoid until you've unpacked all the toons. However, when you open the first crate, a while flock of goose-down pillows begin to squawk and flap their way around your station. The distraction takes the rest of your crafting time as you catch the rambunctious toons.
+12 Undead Cyborg Assembly exp

Try again.

Gather - mine for anything metallic or crystalline. Or carbon-allotropic.

50
88
58-88=1
Taking another venture into the cave, you decide to climb up out of the sink hole, and explore the surface some. It's pretty wild out here, with trees and bushes all around, but you manage to find a structure of some sort of artificial creation in the woods. Some sort of lumber mill at a time, a large piece of machinery seemingly was used to cut logs into planks for whatever use. The machine itself is ancient, and has rusted to a horrible condition. Most of the metal has holes in it, and there are some vines wrapped around and other various plants growing in the massive construction. Griping your powers firmly in your will, you create a massive forklift type vehicle, and lift the whole construction and bring it back to the Aglaia.
+50 scrapyard exp
+ 1 overgrown and rusted industrial lumber saw [88]




Group Inventory:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

- 7 frozen filet of Halibut [53]
- 2 massive concrete building foundations [64]
- 7 rubber mallet heads [84]
- 1 large oak tree stump [71]
- 1 steel mesh window screen [17]
- two windshield wipers [79]
- 2 car door windows [41]
- 2 car doors [41]
- 1 large bent rear window [70]
- two headlights [45]
- 2 side view mirrors [37]
- one cherry red hood [43]
- 2 red brake lights [49]
- 2 leather covered seats [99]
- 1 am radio [22]
- 3 pieces of cherry red fiberglass car body [34]
- 2 coils of copper wire [86]
- 4 rubber goodyear tires [16]
- 4 wheel hubs [50]
- 4 vehicle breaks [36]
- one steering column [64]
- one steering wheel [98]
- 4 shiny chrome serrated blades [223]

Status:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Zaerosz:

310 influence
Tesson the Gemshaper
Gem Cutting 1 [0/100]
Elemental Jewler 1 [36/100]
Jeweler 1 [86/100]
Glass Blower [53/100]
Gemstone Pressing [63/100]
Mining [43/100]
Scrapyard [50/100]
- 1 overgrown and rusted industrial lumber saw [88]

Ukrainian Ranger:

1844 Influence
Astor the weaponsmith
Bladesmithing 1 [0/100]
Scavenge [75/100]
Forage [48/100]
Mechanical Separation 1 [84/100]
Combustion Engineer [70/100]
Turret Engineer 1 [95/100]
Metal Cutting [80/100]
Armory [60/100]
Demolitions [15/100]
Mind Control [60/100]
Chemical Enhancement [76/100]
Chemical Engineering [79/100]
- boxed singing toon sword [20]
- 5 gallons of gastric Acid [18]
- 3 gallons dark-lavender acid [154]

Weirdsound:

305 Influence
Murdoc the Necromancer
Corpse Animation 1 [0/100]
Corpse Collection [68/100]
Abomination Construction [29/100]
Forage [75/100]
Gore Gathering 1 [36/100]
Flesh Engineering [86/100]
Toon Capture 2 [36/100]
Undead Cyborg Assembly [24/100]
- 9 gallons of gastric Acid [28]
- 1 Inverted Gore Humanoid [92]
- 1 Bugs Bunny Toon [98]
- 1 boxed singing toon sword [19]
- 37 ACME toon appliance crates [12]

PyroDesu:

-54 Influence
Neco Ferratum the Artillery Specialist
Dissassemble Malfunction -20
Ballistic Engineer 1 [0/100]
Reverse Engineer [1/100]
Metal Shaping [43/100]
ScrapYard [46/100]
Forage [49/100]
Mining 1 [94/100]
Scavenge [82/100]
- 24 copper ingots [44]
- 10 piles of limestone dust [54]
- 5 limestone boulders [91]
- 1 Dead Explorer Remains [75]

Ok, one more day for this Cycle, then we move to Cycle 3. Going to PM the people involved in the third cycle. Let me know the actions you have for this last day. Remember that only stuff in your inventories will remain, group inventory is used as fuel.

Also as a special note for Pyro, it's a BAD idea to go into hibernation with negative influence. If you cannot get your influence back up to the positive, some of your items may be taken to pay back the ship as a repossession type action.

[Weirdsound]

Alright. Lets set into motion my next plan, and end the cycle leaving you all to wonder what I have in mind next.

Attempt to break down the singing sword into whatever sort of magical ink/laughter energy/ect serves as the fundimental building blocks of toonkind.

Purchase the Halibut and the AM Radio from storage before entering hibernation. Purchase the radio only if I critically fail my check and waste the sword.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Yep, another "successful" crafting that nets -9 influence

It's temping to disassemble that sword, but I have another plan...
Dissolve the songsword in gastric acid to get a singing acid.

Buy
4 shiny chrome serrated blades [223]
1 am radio [22]
two headlights [45]
2 massive concrete building foundations [64]
2 leather covered seats [99]

[Ukrainian Ranger]

And now my proposals for improving game mechanics

1) Give no influence for selling items to group storage, ship should reward crafting, not gathering\disassembling. If the player wants the influence for unfinished item he should try to sell it to other creators. But generally he'll have to craft. Also let player choose what to keep after personal storage overflow

2) Same as above, but give half of influence for selling items to the group  storage... Currently you lose half of item value if you craft from it, but get full value if you just sell it. Crafting is clearly worse. Personally, I prefer "give nothing" variant

3) Don't divide  influence of all ingredients on 2, instead make progressive system like this: 1st and 2nd ingredients give 100% of it's influence to the fiinal item. 3rd and 4th - 50%. 5th and 6th - 25%, 7th and 8th - 12.5%, 9th and 10th - 6,25%. In that way multi item crafts will be penalized, but multistep crafts will not

4) Variant of the above, but it's actually gives bonuses for using expensive ingredients so 1st item gives 150% of it's influence, second 125%, third 100%, fourth 75% and so on. It may look like a free influence, but when you craft from something expensive you risk to lose it if you critically fail, every risk should be rewarded or players like me may not risk

5) Quests from the ship. It would be cool if ship gave crafting quests with sweet influence rewards. It will bring direct competition between the players and it's always fun

[Haika]

Really liking #5... the others, I'm not so sure on. But I agree that some things need some changing, I may try and go back to the more original rule of giving influence for actions rather than items.

What I'm thinking about is making changes at the start of Cycle 5. This gives those returning from cycle 1, and those starting in cycle 3 a chance to play with these current rules, and it allows people here to come back and give it another go in cycle 4. People like Weird who have plans, and Pyro who got kinda jipped on rolls.

The basic concept won't change, and I think that's the background for the game. But I will keep tweaking the system and changing things, and making it better as we go. Maybe try and set something up like every 5 cycles, I update or add new rules/options or something. We will see how it goes.

For now, I hope people are enjoying the roleplay and fun of the gameplay, even if the mechanics can be a bit iffy at times.

[EagleV]

I agree with Ukrainian Ranger that giving half influence for a crafting resource makes crafting from high-quality stuff a waste of influence, while crafting from low-quality items gives you much more. I think there should be a mechanism that, instead of just adding value, the craft quality (and/or attempt) roll should apply a multiplier to the base item. I'm also toying with the idea of combining the attempt and quality roll, as it stands now, you need high rolls on both to get a good item, and having a 70 or 60 on attempt makes no difference whatsoever (at least, that's how I read the rules.)
I'd like to try with one crafting roll (ditching quantity alltogether, let the player decide how many things he makes) and two gather rolls. Then, for instance, a roll of 30-50 would have no effect, 0-9 would destroy the item, with nasty side effects, 10 would cleanly destroy it, 11-29 would damage it, 50-90 would create, with X adding X% influence to the item value, finally 91-100 would create the item, add something like 100-200% value, and can give nice side effects.
This system would yield greater risk/reward with more valuable items and smaller with basic items, although the reward would outweigh the risk most of the time. And you can modify it to reward pyramid crafting by, for instance, subtracting X² from the roll when crafting with X items beyond the first.

[PyroDesu]

Sell the limestone dust and boulders. As you say, I don't want to go into hibernation with a negative influence.
Gather again, looking for gemstones.

And sign me up for the next available cycle.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Yep, another "successful" crafting that nets -9 influence

It's temping to disassemble that sword, but I have another plan...
Dissolve the songsword in gastric acid to get a singing acid.

Buy
4 shiny chrome serrated blades [223]
1 am radio [22]
two headlights [45]
2 massive concrete building foundations [64]
2 leather covered seats [99]

+ I Buy the boulders sold by PyroDesu

[Weirdsound]

Alright. Lets set into motion my next plan, and end the cycle leaving you all to wonder what I have in mind next.

Attempt to break down the singing sword into whatever sort of magical ink/laughter energy/ect serves as the fundimental building blocks of toonkind.

Purchase the Halibut and the AM Radio from storage before entering hibernation. Purchase the radio only if I critically fail my check and waste the sword.

I called the radio first, that gives me dibs, right? If not let me know so I can recalculate my plan. Don't worry, I wont get mad at anybody OOCly if UR beats me too it.

[Haika]

You would get dibs, as being the first poster. However you clarified that you'd only buy it on a critical fail. so the likelyhood is that Ranger will get it. Up to you if you want to change it though.

[Weirdsound]

Eh. Ranger posted his purchases after his crafting, which I think would imply he crafts first and then buys, like me. Now I might be over-planning for an unlikely situation, but if I critical fail, and ranger walks with the Radio, I'll take the car breaks instead.

[Haika]

if you crit fail, you would get the radio. As I tend to do actions based on how they were posted, and since you posted first, your stuff would come first.

[Weirdsound]

Okay. Good. I read your last post as 'Using the conditional statement weakens your claim on the object.'

But now I understand that you likely ment that he will get the radio because I likely wont crit fail.