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Author Topic: Goblin Invation!!!  (Read 3252 times)

Donagh

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Goblin Invation!!!
« on: July 08, 2011, 08:51:50 pm »

I’ve been playing DF for a while now with everything in my world set to normal. The first few attempts I made were simple and my dwarves were horribly slathered by vicious goblins (evil). I’ve battled with goblins quite a bit since but never in a fair fight.
My tactic is to channel them all into cage traps with tactical mining and ship the caged goblins off to an archery range where they can be disarmed and shot by my marksmen from the safety of a fortified balcony. The problem with this is that if the goblins ever get the jump on you, you’ll be in serious trouble and left with no other choice but to seal up the fortress entrance and sit it out.

Has anyone been training dwarves to fight off vicious marauding goblins like this in a fair fight and been successful. If so any chance you could divulge some tactical advantages that I could follow for some more successful goblin slaughter?
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Supernerd

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2011, 09:04:20 pm »

There should never be any reason to fight goblins in a remotely fair fight. If anything you should have an even MORE unfair method of killing them.

But it wouldn't hurt to set up a military in case something goes wrong with your awesome traps. I advise creating some high quality armor and weapons and then training your dwarves until they have high weapon skills. Also if a dwarf does a lot of manual labor then that dwarf will get noticeably stronger. Try having a dwarf manually operate a screw pump until they get too tired to keep pumping it.
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Earth

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2011, 09:07:02 pm »

Its the sparta method for me. Never had an issue with defending the fortress by taking an axe to a goblin or elf skull.
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The Button

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 09:12:35 pm »

I usually start off with 5 peasants with military skills and get them training as soon as possible.  By the time the gobbos start showing up they are no match for this small crack squad of vicious dwarves who live only for the military service they love so much.  This method also helps keep them away from the migrants and avoids tantrum spirals when one of them eventually does die in battle.  After a few ambushes and invations they are great swordmasters.  With this squad of hardcore killing machines at the ready and devoted soley to the defence of the fort it lets you focus on other aspects of military finese.  For instance to counter the bad thoughts that come with long service duty and the death of friends I am turning the barracks into a waterfall room.  Turn the barracks tower into the army base by assigning the soldiers rooms near the top of the stair case.
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Donagh

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 09:20:30 pm »

Wow I like the waterfall idea, misty happy thoughts  :D
I’m filling my barracks with pumps right now with which to power the water fall of happness
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burned

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 10:17:53 pm »

I try my best to avoid cage traps and the like, unless I have some specific gauntlet I want them to run or I want to seek revenge on certain individuals, so I might be able to offer some advice.
My current fort, Horncrypts is in it's 82nd year, so whatever I'm doing works for me, but do take it with a grain of salt, because there have been many deaths.

When I first started out, I set up two squads that constantly trained near the entrance.
Once they graduated to real soldiers, I set up a patrol on the long path winding it's way up the mountain to my entrance.
Along this path there are a few tunnels that go in and out of the mountain, before reaching the summit.
This is in a region that always snows, the advantage being that I can "see" the goblins track snow into the tunnels, before they are actually revealed.
I can better prepare for them this way.

A few decades later, my dwarves had finally set up shop in the first and second cavern layer.
So, I then switched the patrols to the halls that lead down to the first cavern layer where the beginning of my fortress resides.

I have a constant patrol of soldiers that patrol the upper halls, I have another patrol for the inner ramparts leading down to the second cavern layer and a third squad that is constantly training where the fort exits to the third cavern layer. These areas are not for civilians.

None of this really seems like a big deal and I don't think it's anything special, but I think the real secret is to not care if your dwarves die in battle.
This isn't to be confused with trying to kill them. I use the hall's corners to my advantage, back doors to mop up runners and positions the xbow squad in the best spots to pick off any attackers in melee with the Hammer or Axe squads.

My dwarves dream of death in battle and I give them that.

Focusing on that, I have never set up a sculpture garden, meeting hall, etc. This creates a lot of "passing acquaintances" and if done right, their only friends are the gods.
My only weak point right now is the mayor. She's had 30 kids and I've tagged each of them with nicknames, so they are never thrown into the military.
A few of her kids have found death, but luckily the amount of children she has had mitigates the damage done by any "oops".
She came married in a migration, but if you can avoid any marriages, that is best.

Thankfully her husband died recently, placed in a nondescript tomb in the crypts to be forgotten.

When I first started playing DF it was hard not to not get attached to certain dwarves and I still find myself tagging a few that have just done awesome things. Growing fond of a few is fine, just as long as you don't panic at the thought of losing that one at the expense of many.

As an example, Catten, Hammer Dwarf, on patrol was surrounded by two packs of goblins, fighting them on the edge of a cliff. After taking out a few she was slammed into and knocked off the edge to land in the snow below.
The goblins would have rained arrows down on her, but the rest of her squad showed up, drawing their fire.
She picked herself up and made her way back up the mountain path as her mates cut and smashed the goblins that had attacked their comrade.
The goblins ran down the path as Catten met them coming back up, smashing the remaining greenskins.

She took joy in slaughter lately. She really doesn't care about anything anymore.

When her squad leader died, I promoted her to Militia Captain of the Hammer Squad.
She earned it, always first on the scene and emerging out of the miasma victorious on countless occasions.

A few years later, Catten was guarding the obsidian bridge over the magma in the third cavern layer with her squad.
She and her entire squad, but one, was killed by a forgotten beast's dust cloud.

Heroes rise and fall in dwarf fortress.
There's always more to replace 'em.
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Gyvon

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 11:05:30 pm »

There should never be any reason to fight goblins in a remotely fair fight. If anything you should have an even MORE unfair method of killing them.

I'm reminded of an old saying in the military.

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you screwed up."
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thatkid

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2011, 07:27:58 pm »

-snip-
Your fortress sounds incredibly interesting. What kind of biome did you embark in, that you have a winding path up to your fortress entrance?
And also, how did you manage to build tunnels into said winding path without accidentally cutting into the innards of your fort? Or does the entrance just terminate in a very long stairwell?
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Agent_86

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2011, 07:46:56 pm »

I usually try to go the chivalrous route, with one (usually not even full) squad of melee dwarves fighting off hordes of gobbos.  It doesn't always end well.
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When something isn't quite dorfy enough, just add magma.

andyman564

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2011, 07:50:09 pm »

i like to hide behind fiendish death traps with my military used as a "last resort"
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Yeah.  Thus why I didn't make a trap.  In it's current state the fortress didn't need a trap, the whole damn fortress is a trap.

RAKninja

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2011, 08:21:29 pm »

there have been a few "legendary" battles at my 14 year old fort: Bronzetools.  a little background:  i have expanded to3/4 corners of the map.  my "main fort" isnt set up too dramatically different from the one listed in the quickstart example guide on the wiki.  i've made modifications to the design over the forts ive run as i've found out what works for me and what doesent.

in the northeast, i have a totally walled off area, with aboveground farms, and a keep on a hill that is currently under construction (has been for years).  when finished it will be the seat of my king.  this area straddles a shaft to the (walled off) first cavern layer.  nearer the surface are connecting passages to the NW quadrant, and the "main" SE quadrant, as well as a few farmers workshops and stills. 

in the NW is the elbow bend of a brook, and the building that houses my waterwheels.  beneath this are just connecting passages, and my mechanical "drivetrain".  this is connected to the pump that fills the moat in the next section.

in the SW is my moated obsidian tower.  this straddles a shaft to the (walled off) second cavern layer, and the (open) third cavern layer, as well as the top (at least) of the magma sea, and my magma industries.  it is connected to the adjacent quadrants as well, and has a raising drawbridge.

the epic battles have mainly come from invaders spawning right next to this tower.  as i have not designed things the most "efficiantly" there are always things that need to be hauled very long distances, so much so that a "pull the lever" order when the invaders spawn could not always be carried out before the goblins made it into the fort, by way of the tower.  luckily, the trolls and ogres would stop to break my hatch covers before proceeding.  i also have a barracks in the tower itself, so my soldiers could usually hold off the goblins till backup arrived to mop them up.

ive seen a single sworddwarf armed with steel and clad in bronze and copper, hold off about a squad and a half of goblins from the tower "door" (really a drawbridge) before succumbing to the inevitable.  a lone marksdwarf held off two trolls in melee before being struck down.  his/her sacrifice allowed the civilians to escape.

bronzetools has had many heroes, and we've buried most of them.

oh, incidentally, i generally keep the moat drawbridge "up" now.

in that, my experiences match with that of burned.  what differs is that i have many statue gardens and a couple of designated meeting halls (legendary dining hall and well composed of 2 artifacts).  i also have mainly "passing acquaintances"  my mayor has exactly 1 friend.  my duchess has 6, but a few of those are dead.... i think lot of them were my starting 7.  i think i have so few friends because my dwarves are all too busy and spread out to make any.  like i said, there are ALWAYS long term hauling jobs available.  i could have another 200 dwarves and still not get everything hauled that needs it in the next two years.
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burned

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2011, 05:33:28 am »

Your fortress sounds incredibly interesting. What kind of biome did you embark in, that you have a winding path up to your fortress entrance?
And also, how did you manage to build tunnels into said winding path without accidentally cutting into the innards of your fort? Or does the entrance just terminate in a very long stairwell?

I actually still have the screen shot of the location from when I was originally scouting out for a place to settle, to answer your first question.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The winding path was created by dwarven miners, really, just having them "Remove Up Stairs/Ramps" all over the mountain and then building the route that caravans and others need to take to get to the entrance at the top.

Sometimes the path leads across a bridge and to answer the second question, sometimes the path leads through short tunnels.

Originally, when the dwarves first settled, they dug out the beginnings of the fortress in the peaks above, building a few towers to keep watch, while the military trained outside in the snow.
With no water, trees, plants and such in the frozen tundra, they soon moved down to seek out a better area to survive.

Once you get to the entrance there are long halls leading down to the first cavern layer where the new fortress now resides, being a 5x5 map and knowing where I've built things prevents any tunnels from cutting into anything, let alone the fort.

As to the last question, the only stairs in the fortress are just a few built ones in the three watchtowers on the surface and one tower in the caverns.
Otherwise, I just use ramps.

Here is an image of the upper mountain path that might give you a better idea about the winding path, bridges and tunnels.
When putting this together, I thought about putting arrows to show you the path, but with the side by side year comparison, you can just follow the blood in the snow.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don't want to derail OP's topic too much, so going back to combat tactics, this initial path helped my budding military in the beginning. Since I wasn't using cage traps, weapon traps, etc the tunnels allowed me to take advantage of the corners, the xbow squad can rain arrows on goblins from above as the gobbos decide whether to keep climbing the mountain or run, and, in all my time playing DF as I mentioned above, I had no idea you could see the hidden goblins and goblins thieves track snow before being revealed as an ambush.

This definitely helps get my patrols to their positions in time before they even strike.

Granted, I have to be actively looking at certain areas for the shifting snow from the goblins feet, but with a hotkey view every once in a while, I've had the upper hand numerous times when facing them.

Edit:

in that, my experiences match with that of burned.  what differs is that i have many statue gardens and a couple of designated meeting halls (legendary dining hall and well composed of 2 artifacts).

Gah, I wanted to ask how you avoid parties in statue gardens, which is pure socialization > friends > tantrums ? Do you find that the happy thoughts from these outweigh the risked loss of a friend in battle?
I feel like I work so hard from having my dwarves do anything but give head nods as they pass each other in the fortress, but again on topic, part of my combat strategy is to have the "parties" on the battle field.

Besides, what kind of dwarven party doesn't have alcohol? ;]
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 06:22:50 am by burned »
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thatkid

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2011, 02:55:59 pm »

Ah, I figured it was something like that with a large amount of mountains in the embark area. I might have to try that when this fort eventually falls.

You can prevent statue party gardens by just paying attention to notifications. Whenever a party starts, 'q' to the statue in question and 'f'ree it up. That ends the party...if you really wanna be your Fort's version of The Man.

I generally take the goblins on in a fair fight. Fair being that I usually only have 20 dwarves in my courtyard ready to face them, each with maybe 1-2 dogs each, meaning that we're outnumbered 3:1 every time.
In order to keep it fair, the goblins need to pass over a bridge which is surrounded by stonefall traps on each side. The trap layer isn't thick, it's 1x1, so only the first few are hurt. This just lets me thin their ranks so that the fight is fair.

Often, my courtyard is as soaked with goblin blood as it is dwarf and dog blood. Only the strongest survive.
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simonthedwarf

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2011, 03:17:17 pm »

Train your dorfs in a danger room. Get a hospital with at least 1 traction bench, some beds and splints/crutches. I'm holding off FBs and goblins with an average of six dwarfs. Usually wearing copper, silver etc cause I never get iron on my embarks.

Just watch out for crossbow goblins, or bow goblins. Funnel them into close quarters or have really good dodge/shield cause they will hurt your dwarfs real bad.
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eataTREE

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Re: Goblin Invation!!!
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2011, 03:35:41 pm »

Set your military to train. Even without a mechanized Danger Room, in a few months they will have at least basic combat skills.

Put your soldiers in metal armor. Any metal, even copper, but make sure they each have a full suit including (this is important) a shield. Likewise, give them a metal weapon: if you have iron or bronze, make swords or axes. If all you have is copper and silver, use warhammers.

I have never known a squad of adequately armed, armored and trained dwarves to lose a fight to anything short of HFS or a really very nasty FB.
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