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[counting]

And if cheap soy sauce tastes like vinegar... I would probably prefer it. Man, I love vinegar.

The soy source we used are actually varied and have different tastes, even textures. From the sticky and thick one (somewhat like miso), to very light soy source. And there is a kind of black vinegar that can be added into soy source, and it's commonly used as a dip for some food, such as Chinese dumplings.

Addendum to previous post: Fake, awful soy sauce is not fermented.

Real soy sauce is made with soy, usually some wheat, some salt, and is fermented. That's why it bubbles if you shake it.
Fake, terrible soy sauce is basically just brown-colored water with salt and soy protein thrown in it, and possibly other minor flavorings.

For some reason, in the US, it's actually legal to call the latter "soy sauce", so the cheap brands tend to be that. I have no idea what the story is anywhere else, but around here, a lot of people will buy brands like "La Choy", which taste like absolute garbage if you've had the real thing. But that's just my opinion.

In my childhood home town, there is a soy source factory near by, and I can definitely tell you it's made from fermented process in here (Taiwan). Since it will produce unimaginable awful smell like garbage dumps. So, at least the soy source manufactures here are not faking it. (And I guess they couldn't, even if they want to. Since we used soy source in almost every cooking. It's impossible to sell fake soy source to Chinese housewives and cooks, cause they will tell immediately)

And speaking of smell, I guess no one mentioned about the infamous fruit, Durian. Anyone tastes it before and like it? And fortunately I belong to the group of people do NOT thinks it's bad smell.

[G-Flex]

(And I guess they couldn't, even if they want to. Since we used soy source in almost every cooking. It's impossible to sell fake soy source to Chinese housewives and cooks, cause they will tell immediately)

I know there are plenty of Thai and Chinese companies who produce hydrolyzed (i.e. non-fermented) soy sauce, and a lot of it (especially from those countries) actually tends to contain a surprisingly high amount of certain carcinogens. I know they're exported to English-speaking/European countries, but I don't know how much they're used in their nations of origin.

[Mushroo]

Durian is delicious!

[counting]

(And I guess they couldn't, even if they want to. Since we used soy source in almost every cooking. It's impossible to sell fake soy source to Chinese housewives and cooks, cause they will tell immediately)

I know there are plenty of Thai and Chinese companies who produce hydrolyzed (i.e. non-fermented) soy sauce, and a lot of it (especially from those countries) actually tends to contain a surprisingly high amount of certain carcinogens. I know they're exported to English-speaking/European countries, but I don't know how much they're used in their nations of origin.

Actually I've even heard that some bad companies in China, using chemical process to break down soybeans to make soy source. (They made big news in the past, and illegal). And they are actually dangerous when digested. So yes, since Chinese merchants are well known for their somewhat lack of conscience, so there are bound to be some bad and fake ones. But since it tastes really different. (If you ate food using soy source for flavor all your life, then you also can tell the differences), hence it won't last very long in the market here. However for someone not so familiar with the taste, like in foreign market, it may be hard to tell.

There are actually brands of "soy source" using the process that doesn't using natural fermented process (although not chemical, hence not illegal), so they don't actually put the chinese name 麴 which is the fermented materials in their ingredient list, hence it essentially doesn't qualify as real "soy source" 醬油 in the traditional sense. But I think the cooks here can tell they apart with no problems. (people who are older like myself can tell the difference by the smell and color too, but for younger generations it's hard to say, since they eat western fast food much more often.)

[G-Flex]

Actually I've even heard that some bad companies in China, using chemical process to break down soybeans to make soy source.

Well yeah, the non-fermented soy sauce is always made that way. You use acids to hydrolyze the soy protein. Of course, I'm sure the details vary. You might be thinking of something more specific, since hydrolyzing soy protein is surely not illegal... there are probably other things going on.

There are actually brands of "soy source" using the process that doesn't using natural fermented process, so they don't actually put the chinese name 麴 which is the fermented materials in their ingredient list, hence it essentially doesn't qualify as real "soy source" 醬油 in the traditional sense. But I think the cooks here can tell they apart with no problems. (people who are older like myself can tell the difference by the smell too, but for younger generations it's hard to say, since they eat western fast food much more often.)

I don't know about cooks, but in the US, the "fake" kind of soy sauce is mostly the cheap brands people use at home (although there are much better brands in use too), and the little sauce packets you get from Chinese take-out (if you're not familiar with this, it's basically a form of Chinese-American fast food, or close to being fast food, anyway). I have no idea what cooks use, but I imagine most any decent restaurant would use the good stuff.

[RedKing]

Actually I've even heard that some bad companies in China, using chemical process to break down soybeans to make soy source.

Well yeah, the non-fermented soy sauce is always made that way. You use acids to hydrolyze the soy protein. Of course, I'm sure the details vary. You might be thinking of something more specific, since hydrolyzing soy protein is surely not illegal... there are probably other things going on.

Hydrolyzing with a weak natural acid like citric acid or acetic acid isn't. Hydrolyzing with industrial solvents probably should be. And knowing how China works, it's probably cheaper and easier to get a small quantity of say, fluoric acid, dilute it into a large amount of water and have it denature the hell out of some soy rather than large amounts of vinegar to do the same thing. If there's a corner to be cut, somebody's gonna cut it.

[counting]

Actually I've even heard that some bad companies in China, using chemical process to break down soybeans to make soy source.

Well yeah, the non-fermented soy sauce is always made that way. You use acids to hydrolyze the soy protein. Of course, I'm sure the details vary. You might be thinking of something more specific, since hydrolyzing soy protein is surely not illegal... there are probably other things going on.

The kind that is illegal is a kind of synthetic one. Which using some coloring and salt waters with acid and none fermented process (chemical), which can be produced like in days. They are 合成醬油(synthetic), the most extreme with no soybean in them are illegal, some others are not (but not recommended to ingest too often). By the contrast that the traditional 釀造醬油 will takes at least half a year of fermenting.

Since the traditional way takes too long, there is a new kind which is either a hybrid of concentrated real soy source with salt waters 混合/配制, with using enzyme (extracted from vegetation, or very recently using biotech and purify enzyme from the bacteria 麴菌) to break down the soybean, hence speed up the production time (from weeks to months). They are not technically fermented, but essentially they are more like speedup (some) bio-processes, but the tastes are definitely different. This kind is legal, but required by law that it must be label as such on the bottle. And I guess this kind is the one that are most likely been used in the western world, since it's a lot cheaper (several times cheaper, still different from the synthetic one). And frankly as I still saw both on the market here, and people tend to buy the traditional ones, I doubt people else where can tell.

[Neonivek]

Well... Taco Bell is disgusting...

However I think that alone won't cut it... so how about my special Popcorn?

Tons of Salt and butter making soggy salty popcorn.

I used to eat it because no one would touch it.

[G-Flex]

I believe most of the non-traditional soy sauce here uses acid-hydrolyzed soy protein.

In the US, there are no labeling restrictions, though, probably because it's less of a traditional food here. No matter how you make it, you can still call it "soy sauce". I have no idea if the FDA has a restricted legal definition of it at all.


Contrast this with how the FDA in the US handles cheese: Different types of cheese have different legal definitions which must be adhered to. These days, people tend to eat certain "cheeses" (such as Kraft Singles), which are like American Cheese, but cannot even be legally branded as such because they have, for example, additives that cause them to not fit the legal definition. So you have things branded as non-protected terms like "Pasteurized Processed Cheese Product", the "product" being the important distinguishing word.

[counting]

I believe most of the non-traditional soy sauce here uses acid-hydrolyzed soy protein.

Then I suggested not to ingest them often. It's been tested that certain amount of synthetic ones (with certain chemical in it) can lead to cancers. And the real traditional ones I believe will specifically labelled that it used 麴 fermenting bacteria, since it's quite expensive. (But I guess even the one label as traditional, may in fact be hybrid in foreign market since importing has extra costs as well)

A link to a big brand, which you can see there are many different kinds of soy sources.
http://www.kimlan.com/en/e_products01.php

Durian is delicious!

Are there some other fruits that are as bizarre or unique as Durian? I like Durian as well as Jackfruit.

[RedKing]

I believe most of the non-traditional soy sauce here uses acid-hydrolyzed soy protein.

In the US, there are no labeling restrictions, though, probably because it's less of a traditional food here. No matter how you make it, you can still call it "soy sauce". I have no idea if the FDA has a restricted legal definition of it at all.

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/ucm074419.htm

And I was wrong. It's not fluoric acid, it's hydrochloric acid. 


It occurred to me that there's probably a good chance of melamine being used in sketchy soy production too. Soy sauce is graded based on nitrogen content. The higher the nitrogen level, the higher quality the proteins in the sauce, and so the higher quality of the sauce as a whole.
Melamine has been the cheat of choice for boosting nitrogen levels in the past in things like milk (which is also graded based on nitrogen content as an indirect measure of protein quality).

[Dimitri]

I -love- alligator meat.
That's probably odd enough to get in.

[Neonivek]

I -love- alligator meat.
That's probably odd enough to get in.

Oddly enough I'd expect it to be a dense meat. How close am I to the truth?

[counting]

I believe most of the non-traditional soy sauce here uses acid-hydrolyzed soy protein.

In the US, there are no labeling restrictions, though, probably because it's less of a traditional food here. No matter how you make it, you can still call it "soy sauce". I have no idea if the FDA has a restricted legal definition of it at all.

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/ucm074419.htm

And I was wrong. It's not fluoric acid, it's hydrochloric acid. 


It occurred to me that there's probably a good chance of melamine being used in sketchy soy production too. Soy sauce is graded based on nitrogen content. The higher the nitrogen level, the higher quality the proteins in the sauce, and so the higher quality of the sauce as a whole.
Melamine has been the cheat of choice for boosting nitrogen levels in the past in things like milk (which is also graded based on nitrogen content as an indirect measure of protein quality).

I believed that I heard some news about it several years ago when it's a big news internationally. And soy source are one of them too.

[Dimitri]

Oddly enough I'd expect it to be a dense meat. How close am I to the truth?

It's actually a -very- light meat, especially the tail.

Think flavor like a kind of mild poultry (Almost like a cross between turkey and chicken with some other notes.), and most of it, especially the tail, is surprisingly tender when cooked just so.

I also feel less regret eating it, seeing as how heavily regulated alligator hunting and farming is. That, and the fact that they are on much more equal footing with humans than say, a deer at 100 yards.