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[IronyOwl]

Being used to IRC games.

That's understandable as a habit or something, but how does that render you incapable of more than a handful of useful posts all game?

Also, getting annoyed later.

I don't follow. Are you saying you Org it up later because you get annoyed at people getting annoyed at you lurking, or something?

But yeah.

Please don't join games you're not going to play. >:I

[webadict]

Vote Count
----------------------------
Darvi - NativeForeigner, Pandarsenic,
Toaster -
Think0028 -
Solifuge -
Vector -
Pandarsenic -
Ottofar - Solifuge, Think0028, IronyOwl,
IronyOwl - Toaster, Vector,
NativeForeigner -

Not Voting - Darvi, Ottofar,

5 To Hammer. Day Ends Monday 9 PM Central.

[Toaster]

Irony:

We seem to have lost steam.

...Unless said scum wanted to test the bandwagon waters.  You're verging into WIFOM territory now with your responses.

But again, why. What is it about Ottofar that would make me want to test the waters rather than just hopping on board? Or, barring that, what is it about my question that screamed "testing waters" and not "wants answers?"

That last response wasn't WIFOM from me, it was a changing story from you. You phrased it as though I was trying to passively build support against Ottofar, which you now admit wasn't the case.

Where did I say that?




People that are lurking, from bad to worst:
Think0028
Vector
Solifuge
Pandar
Native

Those last two probably need a prod.

Darvi hasn't posted all D2, but he requested a replacement in another thread citing issues, so yeah.


Pandar and Native:  If Darvi got replaced, would you continue to suspect his replacement for Darvi's lurking?  Who else do you suspect?

[Think0028]

Hello! Ever since I got home on Friday night, I've had ridiculously terrible luck with having a stable Internet connection. So far all the posts I've been able to get through have been one short post in Games Threshold and one post in "Fuck You I'm Not Lurking" which took a solid hour to post. Things are looking up at the moment though!

Irony: Yes, I stole that line of questioning from Toaster. That was strictly intentional, you weren't answering his questions from my point of view, and I wanted to restate the question to try to make you answer it.

What pushed you over the edge from not knowing what to do about Otto to deciding he's scum?

Otto: No response other than 'that's unoriginal'? Really?

[Solifuge]

Just got back from the weekend, and about 4 hours of sleep over 3 days. Holy crap, weddings. I'm sunburned and exhausted, and I start a new job in 2 hours. Weehoo? Yes.

On a more relevant note, I've kept myself appraised of the game, and read up until this point. My vote remains on Ottofar. I'm disappointed that he's not trying harder to hunt or suppose, nor save himself; but it's indicative of how blasé and uninvested in the game he's been. I think he's looking for an easy ride (via taking refuge in audacity).

Otto, why should we keep you around? Can you answer that? Also, care to vote anyone, or make a last desperate stab at scum? If you were town, you know it'd be given more weight once you die.

Also, it's been some time since I've heard from my good friend Darvi. Why so quiet, bud?

[Ottofar]

I could say to give someone the inspect but yeah.

And I still call Toasterscum. Also I didn't realize the day was ending today. I was/am going to see why I thought he was scum tomorrow. I'd like an Extension, here.

[NativeForeigner]

Pandar and Native:  If Darvi got replaced, would you continue to suspect his replacement for Darvi's lurking?  Who else do you suspect?

Weekends don't count.

That depends, if his replacement started lurking as well, yeah. But if his replacement was active, no. I would have to start judging the replacement by their actions.

Solifuge: Darvi requested a replacement.

Also, unvote until the replacement gets here.

Ottofar: Are you saying you can give inspects? Why should we believe you? I'm also eagerly awaiting to hear your thoughts on Toaster tomorrow. Extension.

[Pandarsenic]

Ugh, my heaWHOA THE DAY ENDS TODAY NOT OKAY.

Extend

[Pandarsenic]

Native: Darvi's lurking is not the greatest problem here. It's a big one, but the real issue here is things like

Incoherent yelling followed by more or less going "LYNCH DARIUSH NOT ME"

Which he has taken NO STEPS TO CORRECT WHATSOEVER.

I don't think he anticipated for actually getting us off him to Dariush (because he knows he's scum and knew Dariush wasn't) and didn't have a plan for if he actually managed it.

[IronyOwl]

Where did I say that?

I guess I misread that; your changing story had nothing to do with the WIFOM.

The real answer is it's only WIFOM if all the options are valid. You literally have no explanation for why I'd want or need to do X other than "scum do X," which isn't applicable in this case because it'd be ridiculously easy without X. I'm not trying to lead you in circles, I'm demanding an explanation.

Why do you continue to refuse to provide one?

Irony: Yes, I stole that line of questioning from Toaster. That was strictly intentional, you weren't answering his questions from my point of view, and I wanted to restate the question to try to make you answer it.

What pushed you over the edge from not knowing what to do about Otto to deciding he's scum?

Except you don't seem to have even understood the question he was asking. What did you make of my response, why didn't you grasp what Toaster was saying, and what does this mixup do to your analysis?

As for Otto, Toaster pointing out that he's capable of normal behavior but is consistently refusing. There's no excuse for that kind of bullshit.

Also I didn't realize the day was ending today. I was/am going to see why I thought he was scum tomorrow. I'd like an Extension, here.

I'm going to have to say that this is probably a lie. You've had plenty of time and repeatedly said you would/should do stuff later, and it's never happened.

I don't think he anticipated for actually getting us off him to Dariush (because he knows he's scum and knew Dariush wasn't) and didn't have a plan for if he actually managed it.

For some reason I now think you're town. Also extend.

[NativeForeigner]

Native: Darvi's lurking is not the greatest problem here. It's a big one, but the real issue here is things like

Incoherent yelling followed by more or less going "LYNCH DARIUSH NOT ME"

Which he has taken NO STEPS TO CORRECT WHATSOEVER.

I don't think he anticipated for actually getting us off him to Dariush (because he knows he's scum and knew Dariush wasn't) and didn't have a plan for if he actually managed it.

Things like that, his replacement will have to answer for, then.

[Vector]

I'm here.  Sorry about that.  My life has been a bit bonkers.

Rereading now.

[Vector]

I want Toaster's reasoning on why I would need to wait for an excuse to vote Ottofar- it's hardly a difficult choice to explain.

I'm answering them with relevant questions, and I am most certainly not deflecting. Now explain what's wrong with the former, and why you say I'm performing the latter.

Specifically, I dislike this question:

Simple- you want to appear active while waiting for bandwagons to form so you can hop on it.

And I would want or need to do that because?

In my point of view, the correct answer is "no," along with an explanation afterwards.  Instead, you are asking him for your motivation.  It's a clear block.  I don't think the question is relevant, because in theory every player is looking for scum, or will at least answer that way.  So you ask a useless question and never have to address his.

My philosophy is that most, if not all, questions should be addressed straight off.  There's no excuse for equivocating on something as trivial as this.

[IronyOwl]

In my point of view, the correct answer is "no," along with an explanation afterwards. Instead, you are asking him for your motivation.

This might be reasonable if the accusation had any nuance to it, but it doesn't. The "no" answer is implied by the fact that I'm not admitting to being scum, and the explanation isn't anything you can't get from assuming I'm town either- I don't see the point in bothering to say "No, I actually wanted the answer" like that's news.

I'm indeed asking him for my motivation, but it's not a motivation I could use- I'm not saying "Well you tell me why I might do that as town," I'm asking what function it'd serve as scum. I see no difference between that and wanting to know why he thinks scum in general would do something.

It's a clear block.

I thought it was a deflection? In either case, it's only either if I can get away with it- if I'm just kicking the can down the road, as inviting him to openly explain my scummy motivations is, then it's a delay, not a block, and certainly not a deflection, because it's not stopped and it's not shunted onto anything else.

I don't think the question is relevant, because in theory every player is looking for scum, or will at least answer that way.  So you ask a useless question and never have to address his.

Wait, what? You don't think my questions are relevant, but "No I'm town" is a necessary response? What do questioning why scum would do X and the fact that everyone's looking for/pretending to be looking for scum have to do with each other, and why would openly stating that I'm not searching for bandwagons be an important announcement in the face of that logic?

My philosophy is that most, if not all, questions should be addressed straight off.  There's no excuse for equivocating on something as trivial as this.

Then how do you feel about Toaster's refusal to do so?

[Vector]

Not admitting to being scum is very different from denying being scum.  The Orgtell works on a lot of people.  Hell, it even works on internet trolls outside of Mafia--I've caught more than a few that way.  It's subtle, but it's important.

Saying "why would I do that" brings it to the personal scenario, and invites him to put words in your mouth.  Saying "why would scum in general do that" depersonalizes it a bit.

I still think that's ridiculous.  It invites someone else to provide explanations for your behavior, which is a different behavior from saying "In my model of scum, there is no reason to do that."  The statement is not an invitation.  The question could be perceived as an invitation or statement.

That is why it's a deflection or a block.  It means that you don't answer the question.  You say "that's ridiculous.  You tell me."

I'd think you'd know better by now, IronyOwl.


The obvious answer to "why would I hop on bandwagons to appear active?" is "Because you are scum."  I have a hard time believing that you were expecting anything else out of that question.  I see now that what you're asking is "why would scum do that" rather than "why would I do that," but still... it seems odd.


And, finally, I don't know which refusal you're talking about.  I might have missed it.  If you link it past, I'll let you know.