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[Myroc]

"Outright surrender" means an alliance, supposedly in service to us. I'm uncertain how enforced that actually is, though.

Enforced to the point that he will give you any technology he has that you don't entirely for free, you just need to ask for it. For the rest of the game. He'll most likely also give you energy credits (as long as he has it) and other stuff for absolutely nothing in return.

I'm actually surprised why you refused the offer in the first place. Even excluding the massive instant gratificiation for it, think about it. It's Morgan, who gets an economy bonus, sitting on the Uranium flats. That's a lot of energy he's going to get, especially with free market. Help him get down a condenser or two and he could pretty much turn into your entire science department, leaving you to focus on military efforts elsewhere.

Refusing it just for the sake of having a wee bit more room to expand seems a little bit silly. As long as you quickly built around him from the west, and boxed him in, you'd have the rest of the continent at your grasp. And there's an entire planet out there, so there's even more continents for you to colonize.

[IronyOwl]

Fair point, but I'm somewhat dubious about a whipped NPC with no military ability being able to outresearch us. I can't help but think of it as having irritating allies who can't be commanded directly and thus get in the way.

That said, this is a fairly major issue, so getting some more opinions on it would be nice.

[Myroc]

Well, you do have that -2 economy penalty. That's going to put a slight dent into your research endeavours. And you'd be surprised what such vassals can achieve. Last game as the spartans, I attacked Deirdre, but was woefully a bot overzealous and made it a lot harder for me than I should, so when she offered a total surrender, I accepted it. You'd be surprised what three moderate-size bases and a +2 Efficiency bonus did to aid my research.

I guess at this point it's a wee bit too late, though. I don't think you get more than one total surrender chance, and even then you seem to have taken the majority of his cities, so at this point you'd probably be better off at just conquering him.

[MonkeyHead]

They are the polar opposite to us in terms of philosophy - stomp the money worshiping pigs into the ground. They are not worthy of being vassals, despite the possible advantages of having them as a cash cow to milk maximum moo from....

[NRDL]

Nice update, but I honestly can't follow all that you're doing, because I've never played the game myself ( although I have seen let's plays of it before ). 


A few questions, If i may:

Where can i get this game? 

Is this game good?  ( I know the answer is probably yes, but I just wanna make sure ). 

[breadbocks]

This game was made for ME/95/98. You can't get this game. And if you do, it is hell on earth to get working on anything anybody runs nowadays.

No, it's a terrible game which nobody ever liked, just like every other game Sid Meier sticks his name in front of. Why would you even ask that?

[Taricus]

Just get it from GOG. Works on vista too.

[breadbocks]

Just get it from GOG. Works on vista too.

SHHHHH I'M BUSY TROLLING.

>.>

[Un67]

They don't have the expansion at GOG, though. Try this, it's what I bought and it works perfectly on Windows 7. The only compatibility problem I had with it was in instal, and that was easily resolved with directly running the .exe and doing so in the compatibility mode.

[baruk]

 I will repeat some prevously mentioned info, but it may be good to have the entire info dump on vassals in one post.

Fair point, but I'm somewhat dubious about a whipped NPC with no military ability being able to outresearch us.

A note on research-switching: In alpha centauri, switching techs doesn't cost you any research points, on the condition that you discovered the tech in some alternative manner ie. through trade, spoils of war or data-pod. This means an ally's research will always be of benefit as long as you supply him with each new tech as you get it (the exception being when you both research the same tech on the same turn, which can be unavoidable).

I can't help but think of it as having irritating allies who can't be commanded directly and thus get in the way.

That said, this is a fairly major issue, so getting some more opinions on it would be nice.

Advantages of submissive pacts:
 A surrendered foe automatically joins you as an ally, in a "submissive" pact. Your new vassal will never get angry, and never refuse to speak with you (after the first turn). This means you can threaten him as much as you like, if, for example, you want to shake him down for pocket change. He will also never stab you in the back (at least, this has never happened to me).

The spoilerish list of associated exploits benefits:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

- City swapping. A vassal will often be willing to swap well-developed cities for newly built colonies (note he will not swap his last city or his HQ city, but see "tech selling" below). Furthermore, you can simply buy cities from him at an exorbitant price, before threatening him in order to recoup your money (this can get mind-numbingly tedious when he's returning your 2000 energy downpayment in 3 credit installments, but I digress).
- Tech selling. AI factions will always buy tech, even if they're skint! So after your vassal has handed over his lunch money, sell him all of your techs - though be warned, being in the red will cause him to sell his buildings, which may do permanent damage to his researching/earning potential. Note that AIs often sell their HQ, thus allowing the city to be traded.
- Commerce. A healthy ally is also a healthy trading partner. Trade with each individual faction happens on a city-by-city basis, so handing over cities to your ally often makes pure economic sense.
- AI bonuses on transcend difficulty. Your vassals retain the bonuses given to the AI on high difficulty levels, so their costs for building and researching are that much cheaper. Whether they decide to build something worthwhile or not depends on luck, but some factions are better than others. Research will always be useful as long as you keep your vassal up to date on tech.

[IronyOwl]

I guess at this point it's a wee bit too late, though. I don't think you get more than one total surrender chance, and even then you seem to have taken the majority of his cities, so at this point you'd probably be better off at just conquering him.

Oh, oops. I guess this is still relevant for the fate of the other factions, though.

Or if I really wanted to, accepting a blood truce and then curb stomping him again might work?

Nice update, but I honestly can't follow all that you're doing, because I've never played the game myself ( although I have seen let's plays of it before ). 

Ah. I (and probably a few other people) would be happy to explain anything you didn't quite get. Any suggestions for making it more understandable in general for AC-illiterate people would also be nice.

Where can i get this game? 

Don't know myself, but it's around.

Is this game good?  ( I know the answer is probably yes, but I just wanna make sure ). 

It's basically a Civ game with more detailed factions and several interesting and unusual features, like the ability to custom design units and terraform terrain up or down. People are somewhat divided on the expansion, but the general consensus among people who care enough to answer is that it's an awesome, awesome game.

[EuchreJack]

I am glad you decided not to accept Morgan's Surrender.  Also, don't accept surrender from the Peacekeepers either.

You really need University to surrender to you.  You can have three submissive alliances total.

[breadbocks]

How do you know if it's a submissive alliance? Are submissive alliances blood pacts, or something I've never actually seen.

[Un67]

You'll know if you're in a Pact with someone and the other person has their current relationship to you as "Submissive".

[baruk]

I can get behind refusing Morgan's surrender as a roleplaying gesture (he will be assimilated). And there's always more than one way to skin the AI.

This thread seems to have stirred up my enthusiasm for AC, I feel like starting my own Let's Play. Would two AC threads be too much of a good thing? IronyOwl, would I have your blessing?