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Author Topic: Weapon Guide?  (Read 6783 times)

Weapon Guide?
« on: July 01, 2011, 09:55:45 am »

Is there a guide that has details about all the different weapon types? The wiki doesn't say all that much about them. Questions in particular I have that the wiki cannot answer:

Are all swords/maces/axes/polearms the same (material notwithstanding)? Do some have better cutting/stabbing/bashing/hewing potential?

Does using a two-handed item in one hand incur a penalty? Does wielding a two-handed weapon with two-hands provide a bonus?
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AutomataKittay

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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2011, 10:09:38 am »

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Weapon#Dwarf-manufactured_weapons Says plenty about them, though I wouldn't expect most people to be able to understand it, to be fair.

As general rule of thumb, you want lower contact area and higher velocity. Heavier weapon (larger size helps ) for blunt, sharper weapon for edged. High penetration helps if you're facing off against large enemies to pierce their organs.

I'm sure others can help out more beyond the basics!
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Fredd

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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2011, 02:43:39 pm »

 If you go open up the raw folder, it has some weapon info you can compare them with.
A more fun way, would be to run tests in Arena mode to check out the deadliness of the different weapons, and write up a guide to post.
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Greiger

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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2011, 01:33:27 pm »

As a quick and dirty explanation,

Slashing weapons like axes and swords typically work best against soft targets.  Things like unarmored monsters and animals.  Humanoids too if they aren't wearing anything better than leather.  Although excessively large monsters and creatures will reduce their effectiveness depending on the size of your weapon.   A Two handed sword for example is better against a giant than a short sword.

They typically cause the most harm by severing limbs and causing massive bleeding, they can also hit major organs without too much trouble.  Their downsides are a general lack of applied force, spreading the force from the blow over too large an area. And same materiel armor tends to not have much trouble deflecting the strikes.


Piercing weapons like spears pikes and the stab attack of a halberd are typically better at damaging through armor and attempting lucky organ shots, while maintaining some of the bleed effect of a sword or axe.  A good quality spear made of the same or better materiel as your opponent's armor can basically make the armor pointless, as the force focused on the small point of  piercing weapon overwhelms the armor's ability to resist it, unless it is a particularly crappy spear.  You won't puncture an iron helmet with a wooden spear for example.

Like the slashing weapons they can cause bleeding, and they also tend to apply more force than a slashing weapon, allowing more broken bones, and armor or skull puncturing.  They aren't likely to sever limbs though.  And although many people claim they are better for organ hits, I seem to get more of them with a sword than a spear, so your mileage may vary.  (In pre-materiel rewrite versions they always had a built in better chance to hit organs.)


Bludgeoning weapons are the big heavy things like a hammer, maul, or mace.  Unlike the other weapons heavier is always better.  While steel is great for cutting weapons, steel is almost garbage for bludgeoning weapons.  Silver is ideal, iron is functional, adamantine is like a styrofoam bat.  They are also good against armor like a spear, as most if not all armor is only designed to resist cutting in the game, not bashing.

They typically cause broken bones and compound fractures, and very little bleeding, only causing light bleeding as the result of a compound fracture.  Also compound fracture wounds are very difficult if not impossible to clean, leading to a high chance of infection.  They are the ideal weapon choice against non organic hard golem type creatures like iron men and bronze colossi, applying massive force, enough to break the body parts clean off by force alone.  And a hammer to the head of any organic creature is likely instant death regardless of armor.


Bolts arrows and blowgun darts are like little mini spears, with much higher velocity and much smaller penetration sizes.  They are small, and light so don't cause broken bones or organ hits as often as a real sword or spear can, but they tear through almost any armor, even stuff made of better materiel, like a hot knife through butter.  Note that they are just as effective thrown as fired from their respective launchers.

I guess that wasn't as quick as I thought.
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Neonivek

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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2011, 02:54:27 pm »

One issue with blunt weapons is the way the game handles wounds.

Since Hammers cannot actually harm soft tissue or lop off any meaningful limb (outside of super powers), you can often be waiting for compound fractures to happen so that you can drop an enemy.

Because of this hammers are often quite dangerous to use against enemies who cannot feel pain as you will, pretty much, never cause them to bleed out and often not score organ strikes leaving them ample opportunity to strike you back.

It isn't uncommon to break every single bone in a target's body before actually scoring a killing shot.

Mind you the best blunt weapon in the game also has a piercing shot which eliminates this problem. (though it counts as a pike if I remember)
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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2011, 08:26:12 pm »

After playing around with some of the different weapons, I have found that while maces and other blunt weapons do not seem to cause bleeding and thus can't kill an opponent over time, only with a direct hit, when chipping a bone with the weapons, causes the enemy to give in to pain far more often than a sword that chips the same bone.

This doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. A chipped bone, while painful, is probably not as painful (or lethal) as a punctured lung. I don't know why 90% of the time after I have stabbed a major organ or opened a major artery, the enemy will never give in to pain, simply fighting until they bleed out.
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SirAaronIII

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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2011, 09:05:41 pm »

Swords are the jack-of-all-trades average weapon. They can do any form of damage (slashing, stabbing, pommel striking/flat slapping), but they're not extremely good at anything.
Axes are basically limb removers. As stated before, they won't work as well on large opponents.
Spears can pierce through armor easily, but can't remove limbs. They're best used on living, fleshy targets.
Hammers/maces can go through armor too, but are extremely bad against unarmored targets.
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Neonivek

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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2011, 01:02:42 am »

After playing around with some of the different weapons, I have found that while maces and other blunt weapons do not seem to cause bleeding and thus can't kill an opponent over time, only with a direct hit, when chipping a bone with the weapons, causes the enemy to give in to pain far more often than a sword that chips the same bone.

This doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. A chipped bone, while painful, is probably not as painful (or lethal) as a punctured lung. I don't know why 90% of the time after I have stabbed a major organ or opened a major artery, the enemy will never give in to pain, simply fighting until they bleed out.

Yeah Blunt weapons are excellent. SURE they won't kill in one hit... but they have a large chance of disabling an enemy in the first blow... probably larger then the other weapons.

It is just against No pains... its effectiveness drops.
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sinister agent

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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2011, 07:35:17 pm »

Yeah, as a very simple rule, I'd say blunt for disabling, blade for killing.  I'd suggest it's worth even a mace lover carrying a small sword or spear for getting the killing blow in for a particularly stubborn enemy.

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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2011, 10:35:08 pm »

I find reducing an enemy's head to paste with a silver warhammer works a treat for killing.
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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2011, 01:02:05 am »

I think whips and scourges should be gone into detail here.

I don't know much about them, because I haven't used them often, but I do know this: "You whip the human swordsman in the head with your -iron scourge-, chipping the bone, chipping the skull and bruising the brain!"

em312s0n

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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2011, 05:41:58 am »

AH! MY EYES! forum just got brighter.... anyways i know throwing stuff is just as damaging as firing them from a bow or a crossbow but i found that its only accurate by about two or three urists away compared to firing which is accurate even 7-8 urists away... i dont know if its just in my game but can anyone confirm?
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sinister agent

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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2011, 10:07:04 am »

I find reducing an enemy's head to paste with a silver warhammer works a treat for killing.

Yep, but with a blade you can lop off any limb and wander off, whistling.  That can save a lot of time instead of waiting for a good head shot, especially in a crowd.

Isher

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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2011, 10:17:09 am »

I think whips and scourges should be gone into detail here.

I don't know much about them, because I haven't used them often, but I do know this: "You whip the human swordsman in the head with your -iron scourge-, chipping the bone, chipping the skull and bruising the brain!"

On my outsider I decided to try them, they are good in that you get a chipped bone on just about any body part when going up against humans (typically after some initial bruising of muscles) so you can take the easier shots early on in a fight and do alright. Eventually this wears them out, and in a few cases it makes them pass out after 4 chips or so. If they don't pass out at first, once they're worn out you can bruise the heart/liver/guts and this seems to combine with the chips to get them passed out on the ground, at which point a killshot is assured.

But I'm assuming that if you're going up against bigger targets they'll start to suck. I'm thinking of going with both whip and spear. But by the time I've got both up to a decent level I'll have probably died a convincing enough death to leave the char. and start another.
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Re: Weapon Guide?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2011, 01:42:38 pm »

In general, I find that:

Axes are best for human-sized targets. They rip through them like butter, removing every limb, head, or lower body that gets in its way.

Spears are best for large-fleshy targets, or targets with absurd amounts of armor. Hydras especially, as their size and multiple heads makes swords much less useful and axes subpar. A determined axedwarf can still destroy one, though.

Swords are decent or better at everything. They are limited against larger opponents, but will eventually get the job done.

Scourges and whips are deadly in a disturbing way. It isn't the least bit uncommon for a lasher to atom-smash the head of a target.
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