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[Sirus]

Considering a fighter/gunboat's terrible fuel efficiency, I vote nay on survey fighters. They'd take up double the hanger space of a Kestral, greatly reducing a valuable carrier's combat ability. Also (one a more metagaming note), they would be a pain in the ass to order around:

Code: [Select]

Geological Survey Mars
Refuel at parent fleet
Survey Phobos
etc...
A dedicated survey vessel would take far fewer resources, be much faster, and requires less micro-management as well.

[forsaken1111]

I was just exploring the concept and playing along with the fighter-heavy US theme of this setting. Plus the Raptors in BSG are cool.

[Yodamaster]

How exactly would this survey missile work? I understand the concept of survey ships, but like...Missiles with sensors? You launch them at a planet and it gets surveyed? xD. Sounds good, probably easier than designing a whole special ship for it. If it's feasible, and if my underlings agree that it's more easier in the short run than a ship, do it. Planets first, as I said before. It sounds like this quick-fix would give us a one-up on those designing ships. I'm not even going to attempt to negotiate prices on my minerals, I don't know enough about them/the market. I'll just hoard them, they'll sure be useful later. Financial Centres for our wealth problem it is.

I realized it would be fitting for the PRC to steal tech, so let's form our espionage teams to start on stealing that shiny Japanese shield technology. Hopefully our men are competent enough to at least keep tabs on what they're up to. Begin work on the engine/missile speed tech, two convenient goals in one. I just noticed that our ships have a terrible failure rate. I don't know exactly why that is, but it should be a secondary goal to bring that number down a little. If I'm the master of cheap, second-rate weaponry I at least want it to work!

Time to wait for the next major update.

[forsaken1111]

How exactly would this survey missile work? I understand the concept of survey ships, but like...Missiles with sensors? You launch them at a planet and it gets surveyed?

If I understand it right, you'd make a long range drone which has a 2nd stage. The 2nd stage would be a sensor buoy with geosurvey sensors and enough duration to power then until the survey completes. You'd then launch the drones at each body in the system.

[Bremen]

How exactly would this survey missile work? I understand the concept of survey ships, but like...Missiles with sensors? You launch them at a planet and it gets surveyed?

If I understand it right, you'd make a long range drone which has a 2nd stage. The 2nd stage would be a sensor buoy with geosurvey sensors and enough duration to power then until the survey completes. You'd then launch the drones at each body in the system.

Pretty much. You can also give the missiles themselves geosurvey sensors, but deploying a survey satellite works out as much more efficient.

I ran a quick mockup, and you'd end up with a range of 411m km before deploying the buoy. Enough to reach the inner planets and nearby asteroids from Earth, but the converted submarines would need to head out to survey the outer planets. Considering they only hold 10 missiles and you'd need one for each planet and moon, probably not the most practical. A refitted Jianghu is probably a better bet. An interesting experiment, though!

[DemonOfWrath]

Count me in on Japan's side, this looks like it'll be fun.

So here's what I think should be done at this point:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Looking through everything, our major advantage lies in our starting infrastructure and tech, we have the most research labs, and the best engine and non-missile weapon tech, and the shield tech is a good thing to have too, for missile defense. So, I propose techwise priority should be to maintain those tech leads, and to improve our defenses (better shields/armour, more efficient PD). If we can handle missile defense while maintaining those tech leads we'll be extremely formidable, which is invaluable.

Our problem is our abysmal wealth production compared to our construction capacity. My thoughts on this are to expand off of Earth quickly, depending on how aggressive the others are, to increase the potential for population growth, and to focus production on financial centres, but not entirely of course (we'll need mass drivers and such as well, and when possible an additional naval shipyard would be nice, and I don't want to neglect additional research labs, but those might have to wait for better wealth production to come online). On this note, shipbuilding should take priority over construction when needed. This also leverages our automated mine advantage, and establishing offworld production will be essential, Earth's resources wont last all that long.

To this end, we should immediately design/build a few geosurvey ships and freighters. I was conflicted for a while about how to design the survey ships, but I'd say to go for a design with a few guns, as if we go for expansion we'll need as much as possible as a deterrent, not to mention that with beam ships weight of fire is extremely important for ensuring survival.

[Sirus]

I was just exploring the concept and playing along with the fighter-heavy US theme of this setting. Plus the Raptors in BSG are cool.

True. We also wouldn't need to refit/build a shipyard to begin our efforts.
It seems like either the fighter option or refitting the Spruance is our best bet. I'm leaning towards the refit option myself, but sometimes RP is more fun 

In either case, we need to begin production/conversion of automated mines and mass drivers. I say we should build automated mines, to ensure resource generation on Earth is undiminished once mining colonies start forming.

[Knave]

OOO multiplayer Aurora?

I would like to sign up please!

[Bremen]

OOO multiplayer Aurora?

I would like to sign up please!

Okay?

[Thranx]

As the EU still lacks a player I would like join the governing council for the EU.
My proposal for EU policies are as follows:
As we seem to have the advantage in wealth I think that we should use it
First I would like to have a Outlander Class Freighter  [9-engines, 5 cargo bays, 2 cargo handling] and a Horizons Class Colony ship [9-engines, 10 cryogenic, 2 cargo handling] designed and then the plans locked to allow them to be created by civilians.
Then I would like to give our shipping line 2000 mega-credit subsidy.
As for manufacturing I would like to have a 100% of our industry convert 100 conventional industry to mines after which I would like to convert 100
CI into factories.
I would like to expand on the effectiveness of our point defense by developing faster tracking speeds and turrets, also I feel that transforming tech may be of some use in the future and would like to start developing it now
P.S. As this I am new to the bay 12 forums I would like say I have been a fan of this community for a while and have played DF for years
P.P.S. I have also played Aurora for years but never multiplayer so I am excited about this game.

[Pwnzerfaust]

If possible, I'd like to join the EU as well, and would like to discuss with Thranx the design of the aforementioned freighter and colony ship. With nine engines, five cargo holds, and two cargo handling systems, the ship would mass approximately 38,000 tons, which is greater than the capacity of our current shipyards. However if we reduce the ship to seven engines instead of nine, we don't lose too much speed, and can start building them immediately, instead of waiting for additions to the shipyards.

[Bremen]

Looks like we have players for every nation, so I'm about ready to get started. I'll try and get a turn out tonight, probably covering the early construction and initial geo-surveys; there's still time for last minute orders.

As for the EU freighter design, I think he's intending it more for civilian construction than military. However, as far as I know civilian shipping lines wont start building freighters until you have an off earth populated colony (and therefor a market for trade goods).

Also, people should consider shipyards available. If you say a nation should build a small armed survey ship, but the only naval yard you have is currently building 7,000 ton cruisers, it's a choice between stopping cruiser production or building a new shipyard (just to use Japan as an example)

Edit: Also consider civilian construction. If nothing is specified, I'll probably default to a 50/50 factory and (automated)mine mix as population allows

[Thranx]

However if we reduce the ship to seven engines instead of nine, we don't lose too much speed, and can start building them immediately, instead of waiting for additions to the shipyards.http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=post;quote=2402202;topic=87905.15#

I agree with your logic, when I designed the freighter/colony ship i was thinking primarily of the creation of a ship that the civilian lines giving us all the benefits of having a large civilian fleet--income, the ability to contract out shipping etc. So i just used my standard design for my freighter/colony/luxury liner/troop transport. And thus I support your proposal to lower the engine count to seven.

However, as far as I know civilian shipping lines wont start building freighters until you have an off earth populated colony (and therefor a market for trade goods).

I am pretty sure that I have played a few games where I had civilian freighters that where built before I had any off-world colonies.

P.S. Pwnzerfaust--I think that we should establish trade relations with another nation to give our freighters something to do before we establish
major colonies especially as the trade locations will be located on the same planet it will be a major money making opportunity

P.P.S. Bremen--if this is not automatic the EU would like to form a geosurv team to began searching earth for new minerals

[Bremen]

P.S. Pwnzerfaust--I think that we should establish trade relations with another nation to give our freighters something to do before we establish
major colonies especially as the trade locations will be located on the same planet it will be a major money making opportunity

P.P.S. Bremen--if this is not automatic the EU would like to form a geosurv team to began searching earth for new minerals

I'm not doing either of these things. Trading between multiple on-earth colonies is brokenly profitable, and survey teams would be a pain to micromanage. I boosted the minerals available to compensate.

[Sirus]

Bremen, it sounds like forsaken and I are gonna go with the survey fighter route. We'll need some of those. I'm hoping he'll get back online sooner or later, to figure out what to do with our commercial yards, industry and research.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unless he disagrees, the US will concentrate on freighters, automated mines (maybe fifty for now), and better railgun tech.