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[Bremen]

I'll be doing a thread cleanup while things are discussed. I've added the Thranx directive to the OP, will add the Yodamaster accords (IIRC?) once terms are agreed. As far as claiming though, please don't create any more work for me; things like "x can only have a quarter as many mines as y" or "maximum 1 million colonists per terraforming installation" are just more micromanagement. Try to keep it simple. I would suggest allowing claiming of planets and/or stars, but limiting it so no one nation can claim everything.

[Sheb]

Bremen: let us manage those things. They should be no "hard" limits, if no one want to respect a treaty, no one will. Same for claims: if someone claim something but nobody care and he doesn't back up his claim with guns, his claim is worthless.

Also, back on the Aurora forums, we've had a moderatley successful community game, but we need more players. Oh, and it's election time. Facy yourself a minister? Join in!

[Bremen]

Bremen: let us manage those things. They should be no "hard" limits, if no one want to respect a treaty, no one will. Same for claims: if someone claim something but nobody care and he doesn't back up his claim with guns, his claim is worthless.

Nonetheless, I'd still like to request you keep it simple.

[Sirus]

Bremen: let us manage those things. They should be no "hard" limits, if no one want to respect a treaty, no one will. Same for claims: if someone claim something but nobody care and he doesn't back up his claim with guns, his claim is worthless.

You know, there was once this guy who thought the same thing. He was a European, from a country which eventually joined the EU. He thought that the world was his oyster, that if he wanted special rights or some other country's territory, he would take it. After all, if other countries cared enough, surely they would be willing to fight, right? The rules didn't apply to him and his chosen people!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My first ever Godwin. I'm so proud 

[Sheb]

((Hey, that was OOC! I just told the GM not to bother with treaties and such. Those should be enforced by the players themselves. No, IG, I'm all for treaty, respecting them, and will oppose anyone starting to act like a jerk. My aim here was mostly to free up the GM.))

[Bremen]

((Hey, that was OOC! I just told the GM not to bother with treaties and such. Those should be enforced by the players themselves. No, IG, I'm all for treaty, respecting them, and will oppose anyone starting to act like a jerk. My aim here was mostly to free up the GM.))

It's a nice idea, but it doesn't work like that in practice. Since I'm the one handling the game, I have to handle all the information requests, keep track of conditional orders ("If the US violates our claim, send troops to take the colony), etc etc. So it's still more work for me.

Though as a thought, I suppose I could start posting saved games with the end turn report if everyone's honest (not using SM mode to check for mineral deposits in new systems, etc).

[Sheb]

Well, there are no real point to cheating. AFAIK, minerals are generated on survey, so no way to cheat there.

A good things would be to state that all orders must be posted here, and that we can look at each other orders. That way, we'll know what everyone is doing and can edit our orders. No need for conditionnal orders and less work for you.

You should also request "Battle Doctrine" for all the power. So we just say stuff like "Move to Alpha Centauri and engage the ennemy there" and you manage the rest.

[Sirus]

((I had a good long rant typed up, got irritated, went off to play some danmaku game to get rid of the tension, came back, and refreshed. Lost the entire thing XD))

((@ Sheb: Ok, so I overreacted a little. And I apologize for acting like a jerk. ))

((@ Bremen: I'm not sure what posting the save would accomplish. Cheating wouldn't be a problem (you can always just set an SM password), but aside from looking at how our nations are doing with our own eyes there doesn't seem to be much point. Unless there's a way to separate save games and merge them back together.))

In accordance with the powers granted by the Yoda Guidelines, Mercury is hereby limited to 10 (ten) mining structures per nation that wishes to settle there. Existing mines over this limit can stay, but no more may be added. This number may change based on the number of mines that the US has built, capped at 50 (fifty) percent of the US's number.

In addition, no armed warships are permitted within 1 million km of Mercury. An armed warship is defined as:
A) any ship which carries weapons, other than purely defensive systems (CIWS) OR
B) any ship which carries another ship that falls under A.
Military, commercial, and civilian vessels are allowed to approach and dock normally. Warships that require fuel or repair may be granted exemption, but on a case-by-case basis.

Donating terraforming modules is not and will not be required. While we'd like to see Mercury habitable one day, the cost in terms of time and resources is a heavy one to bear, and we cannot require it of any nation.

((That should be lenient enough, I hope  ))

[Sheb]

Except we didn't discuss the Yodamaster Parameters yet. Let's agree to the rules before using them.

[Sirus]

I keep saying that we should talk about them and no one ever does 

[Sheb]

We were busy doing other things. Let's do it now.

First of all: here are the original guidelines:

Spoiler: Yoda Guidelines (click to show/hide)

1. In the situation of a colony in the process of being terraformed, in order to occupy that planet, you must meet the terraformer:population ratio of the initial occupier, and keep up with their ratio as they set it. They are under no obligation to meet your ratio if it is higher.

2. In the situation of a colony not being terraformed, anyone is free to settle it. The first person to begin a legitimate, long term terraforming process sets the ratio.

3. In the situation of an automated mining colony, the nation that first established the colony has the right to determine the ratio of mines you may have in relation to theirs. This ratio may not be lower than .25. If a colony by someone besides the nation that placed their mines first, the nation that placed their mines first is under no obligation to stop placing mines or remove their mines until a legitimate terraforming process is started by someone besides themselves, or the presence of the mines is harming the purpose of the colony. In any of these cases the colonizers would set the ratio, if they want to permit one at all. Rules 1 and 2 would apply here.

While I agree with point 1 and 2, I do not agree with point 3. I can understand the need to legiferate on terraformers, so that no one can profit unjustly from another antion's effort, but I don't see the logic in point 2. Why should anyone decide how many mine can be set on any body?

[Sirus]

To encourage nations to plant their own colonies? To prevent mineral depletion from over-mining?
Trust me, if you founded a nice colony, you wouldn't want other nations to elbow you out of the way, would you? You'd want it for yourself as much as possible. It's only natural.

That's the way I see it, anyway v v

[Sheb]

Yeah, but if another nation had taken all the good spot, you'd want to be able to mine too. It's only natural.

Actually we're back to our old postion. Article 3 is a smaller, nicer form of property, and as before, I'm against national property in the sol system and you're for it.

[Sirus]

Then perhaps (for the Sol system, at least) we should enforce a cap. Each colony, perhaps depending on total value of minerals, would have a cap for mines per nation. This would pretty much be the opposite of national property, and ensures that each nation has a fair shot at minerals. Of course, whether or not you chose to place mines on a particular planet would be up to the individual nation. Would this be fair in your book?

[Sheb]

Yes it would. You'll notice another difference between that scheme and the other. This one require nations to talk to each other and be diplomatic. No more rogue president and officials angering other president and officials and risking a world war.

Spoiler: Updated Yoda Guidelines (click to show/hide)

1. In the situation of a colony in the process of being terraformed, in order to occupy that planet, you must meet the terraformer:population ratio of the initial occupier, and keep up with their ratio as they set it. They are under no obligation to meet your ratio if it is higher.

2. In the situation of a colony not being terraformed, anyone is free to settle it. The first person to begin a legitimate, long term terraforming process sets the ratio.

3. In the situation of a mining colony in Sol, a cap on the number of mine per nation shall be discussed and agreed on by the Security Council. Default caps (Can be extended by the SC) are of 50 mines for an asteroids, 100 mines for a comet, 200 mines for a moon and 500 mines for a planet. This include manned mines, automated mines and ship-borne mines. This does not apply to the Earth. A separate mine cap on Earth can be discussed by the SC.

4.The situation of extrasolar colonies shall be decided by the SC should humanity ever cross the interstellar voids.

Would this satisfy you?