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(I need suggestions is what I'm saying.)

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Total Members Voted: 0

[scriver]

From a rational standpoint, no. From a human standpoint...let's face it, we'd all find it easier to kill someone we don't like than someone that we do like.

EDIT: Edited for clarity. I wasn't suggesting that I like to kill people who displease me. The rivers would run red if that were the case (or more likely, I'd be on death row after 1-2 murders).

That it's easier doesn't justify it.

And no, you didn't say you like killing assholes, you just said it's okay to kill him because he's an asshole.

[RedKing]

From a rational standpoint, no. From a human standpoint...let's face it, we'd all find it easier to kill someone we don't like than someone that we do like.

EDIT: Edited for clarity. I wasn't suggesting that I like to kill people who displease me. The rivers would run red if that were the case (or more likely, I'd be on death row after 1-2 murders).

That it's easier doesn't justify it.

And no, you didn't say you like killing assholes, you just said it's okay to kill him because he's an asshole.

I said "from a human standpoint". Meaning, I recognize that from a rational, objective standpoint it would be equally wrong. But from the emotional, human standpoint, it's going to be a much fuzzier value judgement. Consider that you're weighing the two options in you mind:

1. Quietly murder a guy who's being a selfish jerk (and is already sick and likely to die in a few years anyways)
2. Allow your loved one to suffer and die.

If you can easily and dispassionately say that this is not a difficult choice, then I put it to you that you've never known what the phrase "a loved one" really means.

[scriver]

Of course. Only if you live in a world where morality and the value of others revolves around yourself and your convenience, you know the meaning of "a loved one".

People die. I've lost family I loved, and I have people I care so much for just thinking about something harming them makes me want to cry rivers. Yet I would never even begin to consider murdering an innocent man to save them. Doesn't matter if he's old, or an asshole, or if you do it "quietly". The fact that you even consider it "hard" to make that choice makes you a selfish bastard believing your own happiness to be more important than that of the mans, or his loved ones'.

Or perhaps I just expect too much maturity from my fellow adults.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

Yep.
Hell, If I was required to go in there and rip his throat out with my teeth I would.

[anzki4]

I would not kill the man, even to save my loved one.

[RedKing]

Sorry to disappoint you then. I'm only human.

[shadenight123]

i'd save the guy.
because he wouldn't be the same guy who committed the murder.
Think absurdly that one day, you wake up in that body, and that is the body of someone who is going to die in a month of death sentence. You have no recallings, you have done nothing, you are "you" a new being. How can the kill "you" ? your soul, (not spirituality, but meant like *the thing which makes us think*) is innocent. your body is the culprit.
So, you can't kill the soul to punish the body. you need to punish the body while leaving the soul intact.
So rather than killing him, one should resort to systematical beatings.
Once a month, he presents himself to the police, writes down his name, and gets beaten up for a while.
Then he leaves with nothing broken obviously.
If he ever comes back to what he was he still gets punished every month of his life.
And eventually he'll snap asking to be killed instead of tortured.
If he doesn't come back he might see it as an injustice, yet, it will be a lesser injustice then being killed for a crime he did not commit.
blood is taken, and blood at the same time is not taken. everyone's happy, except the body. Because the body is the culprit now. not the soul.

[RedKing]

i'd save the guy.
because he wouldn't be the same guy who committed the murder.
Think absurdly that one day, you wake up in that body, and that is the body of someone who is going to die in a month of death sentence. You have no recallings, you have done nothing, you are "you" a new being. How can the kill "you" ? your soul, (not spirituality, but meant like *the thing which makes us think*) is innocent. your body is the culprit.
So, you can't kill the soul to punish the body. you need to punish the body while leaving the soul intact.
So rather than killing him, one should resort to systematical beatings.
Once a month, he presents himself to the police, writes down his name, and gets beaten up for a while.
Then he leaves with nothing broken obviously.
If he ever comes back to what he was he still gets punished every month of his life.
And eventually he'll snap asking to be killed instead of tortured.
If he doesn't come back he might see it as an injustice, yet, it will be a lesser injustice then being killed for a crime he did not commit.
blood is taken, and blood at the same time is not taken. everyone's happy, except the body. Because the body is the culprit now. not the soul.

....
.......
What.

[shadenight123]

i'd save the guy.
because he wouldn't be the same guy who committed the murder.
Think absurdly that one day, you wake up in that body, and that is the body of someone who is going to die in a month of death sentence. You have no recallings, you have done nothing, you are "you" a new being. How can the kill "you" ? your soul, (not spirituality, but meant like *the thing which makes us think*) is innocent. your body is the culprit.
So, you can't kill the soul to punish the body. you need to punish the body while leaving the soul intact.
So rather than killing him, one should resort to systematical beatings.
Once a month, he presents himself to the police, writes down his name, and gets beaten up for a while.
Then he leaves with nothing broken obviously.
If he ever comes back to what he was he still gets punished every month of his life.
And eventually he'll snap asking to be killed instead of tortured.
If he doesn't come back he might see it as an injustice, yet, it will be a lesser injustice then being killed for a crime he did not commit.
blood is taken, and blood at the same time is not taken. everyone's happy, except the body. Because the body is the culprit now. not the soul.

....
.......
What.

something not understood? i know my english is not quite perfect.

[RedKing]

....
.......
What.

something not understood? i know my english is not quite perfect.

Nevermind, I just now realized you're responding to the initial scenario, not the new one.

[shadenight123]

oh right. there's a new one. i answered the old one because i was still in the process of reading through.
X_X

i wouldn't kill the guy.
not because i'd be a murderer, but because i can relate the feeling of "your on your own" he too had to wait on the heart transplant list. if he were to do a marrow transplant, he could well possibly die. Heck, he might have died even from the operation.
Furthermore, his suffering is not taken into account.
I recall i was completely out of my mind after an operation, due to the painkillers i was given. It doesn't mean i'm a dick person, or an asshole. Just, it was the wrong moment to be next to me.
Probably if it were to be asked afterwards, gently, and saying that it might as well have been fate for him to be there and still alive, he might agree to a marrow transplant (which i recall is not lethal in the least aka: you don't die if you give a piece of marrow, apart from surgical complicancy)  But in the event of him saying no, who would blame him? i mean, he had to pass months and months probably praying to god or whatever for a heart transplant. He's been through the same things you were for your loved one.
as long as you don't know why he's there or how, just because he said "no" doesn't mean you should kill him.
and it would haunt you doing it.
and it doesn't even mean you might get his marrow killing him, since there are lists and the like. and maybe there's a little tiny 5 years old girl who needs it or will die after five minute.
on the other hand, if he were a pedophile/murderer/psycho or something of the sort, of whom i knew the certainty of his crimes,  and who has evaded prison through ingegnious ways, i'd kill him. Even if i wouldn't get the marrow, even if it would haunt me. Because he would deserve it.
And if somebody were to ask "who are you to decide for him?" i'd reply:"noone, but i have the power to decide, and i have decided. may it be wrong or right, unless god stays my hand (anygod for what it matters to an atheist) this is my way, and i'll stick through it. it can even make me look like an arse, but to me, criminals are criminals. And they deserve punishment to make them stop being criminals. and sometime, death is the only answer."

[Acanthus117]

I'd probably do nothing, but be torn up by regret for the rest of my life.

[Dsarker]

For the first one, I'd let him go scot free.(that is, unless he was a Scot).

Practical reasons: no reason to keep him in jail. No reason to execute. Execution will bring a public outcry, jail could make him a criminal AND is expensive.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the intent of the legal system in America that it is "better that ten guilty men go free, than one innocent man be imprisoned"?

Personal reasons: death penalty is wrong in any case. Nobody has the right to decide when someone shall die except God.



Second case

I'd not kill him.

Practical reasons: you could get caught. They are likely to try and find who did it. Won't people think that it's strange that you got into an argument with him, and then somehow knew he was dead? Also, there's the problem of the transplant surviving that long. He dies, nobody will check on him until at least the morning. It could well have decayed so much as to be unusable by that time. And the negotiation will take time too.


Personal reasons: as above, nobody has the right to decide when someone will die except God. If God has decided that it is time He shall call my loved one home, then I will acquiesce. I will pray for their safety, but if it is His will, why should I try to halt it?

[Fenrir]

Personal reasons: as above, nobody has the right to decide when someone will die except God. If God has decided that it is time He shall call my loved one home, then I will acquiesce. I will pray for their safety, but if it is His will, why should I try to halt it?

I hope you understand that this kind of reasoning would require that medical care should not be used, for, if you suppose that circumstances leading to death must be God's will, and you do not wish to try to halt God's will, you must then suppose that someone that has fallen gravely ill should be permitted to die.

This also assumes that you really know what God wants in any particular circumstance.

You also overlook the fact that, as I suppose that your god is all powerful, you could not really do anything without Him permitting you to do so anyway, and, thus, you could not defy God's will.

Similarly, if nothing can happen without God letting it happen, must not everything that happens be God's will?

[Dsarker]

Personal reasons: as above, nobody has the right to decide when someone will die except God. If God has decided that it is time He shall call my loved one home, then I will acquiesce. I will pray for their safety, but if it is His will, why should I try to halt it?

I hope you understand that this kind of reasoning would require that medical care should not be used, for, if you suppose that circumstances leading to death must be God's will, and you do not wish to try to halt God's will, you must then suppose that someone that has fallen gravely ill should be permitted to die.

This also assumes that you really know what God wants in any particular circumstance.

You also overlook the fact that, as I suppose that your god is all powerful, you could not really do anything without Him permitting you to do so anyway, and, thus, you could not defy God's will.

Similarly, if nothing can happen without God letting it happen, must not everything that happens be God's will?

He gave us the capacity for medicine for a reason.

I don't know what He wants except through revelation. If He truly wants me to use the bone marrow of this other unfortunate, then He would either speed his natural death or cause him to accept my arguments.

God gives us free will. What we choose to do with it does not necessarily happen through God's will.