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Gentlemen, I feel that it is time we go to....

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(I need suggestions is what I'm saying.)
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Author Topic: Ethical Dilemmas: PURPLE ALERT  (Read 36944 times)

anzki4

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #255 on: July 04, 2011, 06:12:34 am »

Is there even the slightest chance of saying a few words before I die? I'd like to ensure, if possible, that I die a martyr, but if I can't say anything I'll just have to hope my death inspires my minions.
Just accept the deal and instead of denouncing the revolution, denounce the government. Then get executed.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #256 on: July 04, 2011, 06:15:43 am »

Is there even the slightest chance of saying a few words before I die? I'd like to ensure, if possible, that I die a martyr, but if I can't say anything I'll just have to hope my death inspires my minions.
Just accept the deal and instead of denouncing the revolution, denounce the government. Then get executed.
To adress this: Any outcome in which you denonce the revolution counts as taking the deal, any outcome that ends with you dead counts as not taking the deal, and making up a schizophrenic course of action that ends with both taking place doesn't count.

Got my bases covered.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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Gamerlord

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #257 on: July 04, 2011, 06:35:38 am »

Ummmm.... Is this 'evil government' actually evil? Could it be a lesser evil? Has it resulted in world-wide government? It may actually be better than some of the other nations, and the current government is just making the hard choices.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #258 on: July 04, 2011, 06:42:48 am »

Ummmm.... Is this 'evil government' actually evil? Could it be a lesser evil? Has it resulted in world-wide government? It may actually be better than some of the other nations, and the current government is just making the hard choices.
I don't know, you tell me.
You are living in a despotic authoritarian superpower. This nation has commited every atrocity and rights violation known to man, including secret police, ethnic clensing, state surveillance, death camps, and violent conquests of other nations in order to maintain economic viabilty in such a society. They are quite simply wrecking the entire world.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

ChairmanPoo

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #259 on: July 04, 2011, 08:06:59 am »

Under the spreading chestnut tree
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shadenight123

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #260 on: July 04, 2011, 08:13:30 am »

i'd take the offer. because in the end, i'm not different.
I'm starting a revolution to make myself and my followers better.
Many revolutions end up bringing to power the men and the army, and they then proceed to make them live better lifes. In the end, the dictatorship i'm fighting and the revolutionary movement i created are but the same thing. With one difference: the dictatorship started sooner and achieved success. i wanted to partake in that success so i started a revolution to get it's benefits. i might have convinced others i'm fighting for them and their benefits. Truth be told i'm fighting for a better place FOR myself.
there was a saying:
the high class fights to keep it's status.
the middle class fights to get the high class status using the low class.
The low class fights for the middle class to get the high class status in exchange for better situation and ends back in the low class. with a worse situation maybe.
i take the offer and live in luxury, i'd be so damn busy playing any and each videogames/consoles, eating whatever, doing whicever women, and doing whatever i want that i wouldn't feel a thing for the people i sent to jail. If i ever felt anything.
Might be a prick, but consider yourself in that situation, they might give the offer to your second in command, your lieutenant and the like. and they might be weaker. even if you resist, resistance might fall the same.
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“Well,” he said. “We’re in the Forgotten hunting grounds I take it. Your screams just woke them up early. Congratulations, Lyara.”
“Do something!” she whispered, trying to keep her sight on all of them at once.
Basileus clapped his hands once. The Forgotten took a step forward, attracted by the sound.
“There, I did something. I clapped. I like clapping,” he said. -The Investigator And The Case Of The Missing Brain.

anzki4

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #261 on: July 04, 2011, 08:26:19 am »

there was a saying:
the high class fights to keep it's status.
the middle class fights to get the high class status using the low class.
The low class fights for the middle class to get the high class status in exchange for better situation and ends back in the low class. with a worse situation maybe.
Actually it was at least in "Nineteen Eighty-Four" along the lines;

High class fights to keep it's status.
The middle class fights to swap places with the high class, using the low class by lying them about equality.
The low class wants equality. (Because they know what inequality is for the lowest class.)

In the end only the high and middle classes succeed in their goals, even though the lowest class gives the greatest sacrifice in the revolution.

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MorleyDev

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #262 on: July 04, 2011, 09:59:49 am »

Except for those in the lower class who figure out a way to take the leap up to middle/upper class. Of course to do that they usually have be willing to screw over not only the middle and upper class, but their fellow lower class. You can't be highly ethical and highly successful at the same time, collective human nature prevents it. Always has and always will. Cruelty is usually more efficient, and nature is nothing if not an optimiser.

I find the idea of a person rising to the top of a revolution without becoming at least nearly as 'corrupt' as the people they are fighting laughable. I do find the idea they wouldn't realise their own vices plausible. At the end of the day, it depends what is more important to me when I reach that point: My pride or my survival. Am I too proud to admit defeat? If yes, then I die. If no, I survive.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 10:30:08 am by MorleyDev »
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Vector

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #263 on: July 04, 2011, 11:59:31 am »

Actually it was at least in "Nineteen Eighty-Four" along the lines;

High class fights to keep it's status.
The middle class fights to swap places with the high class, using the low class by lying them about equality.
The low class wants equality. (Because they know what inequality is for the lowest class.)

In the end only the high and middle classes succeed in their goals, even though the lowest class gives the greatest sacrifice in the revolution.

That's originally from Karl Marx's The German Ideology, with some mild clarifications/extrapolations.
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Zangi

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #264 on: July 04, 2011, 03:04:15 pm »

Technically, we are on the verge of tipping the scale that would bring victory. 
By the time I get there, as leader of a revolution... I'd probably have given the orders for so much... 'wrong' to bring the revolution to the tipping point and silenced whatever may potentially leak. 
When I come to that point... having done so much... do I turn my back on it for a life of luxury?  Or would I ensure what 'sacrifices' and 'wrong' I've done in the name of the revolution be not for naught?

Why stop now?  I've already done so much.
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Shambling Zombie

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #265 on: July 04, 2011, 05:51:58 pm »

Under the spreading chestnut tree
I sold you and you sold me...

I like that book. It's a good read, although depressing and a little terrorfying.
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Acanthus117

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #266 on: July 05, 2011, 05:35:14 am »

Under the spreading chestnut tree
I sold you and you sold me...

I like that book. It's a good read, although depressing and a little terrorfying.

Ditto.

As for topic... I'm a fucking coward.

I'd take the deal, as long as they can assure that my vengeful former buddies won't get me.
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Grakelin

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #267 on: July 05, 2011, 05:53:08 am »

The scenario is too hard for everybody to interpret the same way. Half the people here choose their answer based on the morality of the initial revolt!
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Grek

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #268 on: July 05, 2011, 06:28:22 am »

That's kind of the point.

Your answer to this hypothetical informs you as to the correct course of action prior to starting any such revolutions. If you see yourself defecting without regret, than you should strongly consider defecting now. If you see yourself defecting and then comming to regret it, than you should use that knowledge of regret to keep yourself from betraying. If you see yourself sacrificing yourself willingly, than you know that the cause is important enough to die for in the here and now, and if you see yourself reluctantly choosing death, than you know that you probably should try to avoid getting that involved in the first place.
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Strife26

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Re: Ethical Dilemmas: Something Worth Dying For
« Reply #269 on: July 05, 2011, 11:10:06 am »

Under the spreading chestnut tree
I sold you and you sold me...

I like that book. It's a good read, although depressing and a little terrorfying.

As I've said before, I find 1984 to be a super uplifting book
Major spoiler, possibly even for those who've read it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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