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[Kaos]

What does control what a civ has available for trade/embark? specifically what makes elves bring animals/vermin for trade while the others civs don't?

Can you have civ-specific pets/domestic animals, etc??

Like for the humans a chicken is a domestic pet, but for goblins a cave mole, or a beakdog....?? the same with mounts, burden-animals, etc...

For example, humans can have the regular poultry for their egg farms, but goblins can farm cave swallows eggs, and trade them...

instead of elves using yaks as burden animals for their caravans they use some good animal like a unicorn??

Why the only plant you can embark with are plump helmets?

So how do you mod these??

[kotekzot]

I believe the raws account for distinction between aboveground and underground animals, as well as mundane/good/evil creatures. So yes, elves could probably use unicorns as beasts of burden if they had good animals enabled and unicorns were able to be beasts of burden.

[Nidokoenig]

Entity file tags, you can look them up in the entity token article on the wiki:

   [OUTDOOR_WOOD]
   [OUTDOOR_FARMING]
   [INDOOR_WOOD]
   [INDOOR_FARMING]
   [USE_CAVE_ANIMALS]
   [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS]
   [USE_GOOD_ANIMALS]
   [USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PACK]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PULL]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_MOUNT]
   [COMMON_DOMESTIC_PET]
   [USE_EVIL_PLANTS]
   [USE_EVIL_WOOD]
   [USE_GOOD_PLANTS]
   [USE_GOOD_WOOD]
   [USE_ANY_PET_RACE]

You can't really tailor what various races can use too much, though you can use combinations of some tags. For example, putting [GOOD] or [EVIL] on a subterranean plant will block world-gen dwarves from using it, but the plants will still pop up everywhere since [GOOD] and [EVIL] are meaningless underground. Presumably a civ with [INDOOR_FARMING] and [USE_EVIL_PLANTS] could use an evil subterranean plant the dwarves couldn't access. I haven't done much testing into how well this works, but it's worth trying to see if it gives you any useful results.

[_DivideByZero_]

You can make chickens [good] and let humans use [good] animals. This may lead to human knights mounted on unicorns, however.

[Kaos]

For example dwarves have:
[INDOOR_FARMING] and nothing else regarding plants, so this allows them to have access to all subterranean plants, right? the why when you embark you are only able to pick plump helmets in plants? you're allowed to pick all the seeds though...

[USE_CAVE_ANIMALS] allows them to use subterranean creatures but they don't show up for embark or trade.... why?

[USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS] no idea what's that for and the wiki says nothing either....

[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PACK]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PULL]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_MOUNT]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PET]

In the genesis mod dwarves are able to bring elk birds [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM] at embark (and I assume to order them too) I checked the raws and the only difference is that elk birds got [exotic_pet] and [exotic_mount] changed for their regular counterparts....

so dwarves by [use cave animals] can have any non-exotic subterranean animal?
so in the case of goblins who have [use cave animals][evil] can have any non-exotic evil subterranean animal? (I think the only ones are ogres and trolls?? which they do use on embark)

What's the [use_any_pet_race] for then? from the wiki I got the impression that this was required to trade pets....??

[AutomataKittay]

The above posts makes me wonder, how can you set up civs to be able to bring the exotic pets, like elves does all the time? I know I've seen dwarves have all kind of things on embark, but never to order, nor on their own.

[Kaos]

The above posts makes me wonder, how can you set up civs to be able to bring the exotic pets, like elves does all the time? I know I've seen dwarves have all kind of things on embark, but never to order, nor on their own.

Really? like what, Everything the dwarves have on embark they can ask the liason later, the only odd thing I remember is the plump helmets I mentioned....


I think that what make the elves bring tame creatures and vermin is the [USE_ANY_PET_RACE], according to the wiki:

Assuming it passes other checks, any creature in their list of usables (from common domestic if they have that or from the surrounding 7x7 or so of squares and map features in those squares) which has PET or PET_EXOTIC will be available as a pet (next time, it'll let them use mounts/pullers/pack animals of any kind as well, but I'm not sure this matters in the stock raws). This notion of the initial usable creature list, which then gets pared down or otherwise considered, applies below as well. All common domestic and equipment creatures are also added to the initial list.

So the civs have a list of usables that is filtered down....
* 7x7 or so squares around the settlement
* COMMON_DOMESTIC
* USE_CAVE_ANIMALS
* USE_EVIL_ANIMALS
* USE_GOOD_ANIMALS
* COMMON_DOMESTIC_MOUNT / PACK / PULL / PET -> these tags confuse me a bit....

If a creature has PET and the relevant COMMON_DOMESTIC_x tag (or COMMON_DOMESTIC for pets), it will be allowed if it passes the other checks

so for example, if you embark with goblins you can see that they have trolls and (sometimes) ogres available....
Troll have evil and are underground only, and ogres have evil and biome shrublands/savannas/grasslands.... the goblins have no biome in the creature file, and in the entity they can start anywhere... so why do they always have access to trolls and only sometimes to ogres on embark??

[AutomataKittay]

The above posts makes me wonder, how can you set up civs to be able to bring the exotic pets, like elves does all the time? I know I've seen dwarves have all kind of things on embark, but never to order, nor on their own.

Really? like what, Everything the dwarves have on embark they can ask the liason later, the only odd thing I remember is the plump helmets I mentioned....

In some games, I see a lot, and I mean LOTS of critters I can embark with, but nothing I can order later on. Just horse, cow, dog, donkey and cat. Instead of camels, eagles, etc that I see avaliable on embark screen.

Though they are missing the [USE_ANY_PET_RACE] tag, so that's probably it.

[Kaos]

I was checking the raws to figure out the creature tags and it's relation with civ access... I noticed there are some creature which don't have either [pet] or [pet_exotic] like trolls and ogres and they still get pulled if you play as the goblins.......


Another thing interesting I noticed is that creatures also have "surroundings", they can have good and evil alignment tags but also savage and benign savagery tags...


more interesting snailman and slugman have both benign AND savage.... so do they show up in all kind of savagery biomes? the ones without any tag only in neutral savagery and the ones with an specific tag in neutral and savage or benign??

[Deon]

USE_ANY_PET_RACE gives entities an access to any PET/PET_EXOTIC creature from the area around their inhabited biomes, that's why elves have such a variety of tradeable animals.

[celem]

Troll have evil and are underground only, and ogres have evil and biome shrublands/savannas/grasslands.... the goblins have no biome in the creature file, and in the entity they can start anywhere... so why do they always have access to trolls and only sometimes to ogres on embark??

If theres cavern layers then every site will have an underground.  The goblins can appear anywhere, they will always have caverns and therefore trolls.  If they happen to be in one of the ogre supporting biomes then they also get those.

[Kaos]

Troll have evil and are underground only, and ogres have evil and biome shrublands/savannas/grasslands.... the goblins have no biome in the creature file, and in the entity they can start anywhere... so why do they always have access to trolls and only sometimes to ogres on embark??

If theres cavern layers then every site will have an underground.  The goblins can appear anywhere, they will always have caverns and therefore trolls.  If they happen to be in one of the ogre supporting biomes then they also get those.

With most creatures, yes that would be the explanation, but aren't they supposed to need either pet or pet_exotic? I did a test, removed all the common_domestic tags from dwarves, added use_any_pet_race and checked their embark screen, and the surroundings of the mountainhomes, efectivelly they do bring any pet or pet_exotic that belongs to those biomes... I got a few exeptions but I believe it has to do with me noting the biomes incorrectly... in the map screens how do you tell which biomes the mountainhomes have access? I tried expanding the embark area full capacity, and noting the biomes around the fortress in the local area, is that it? do I have to take the surrounding squares? how far?


returning to trolls and ogres, these too have no pet or pet_exotic tags, so how do they get in the list of usables in the first place? and why only to goblins? is it the evil tag??

[Deon]

The lack of PET on trolls puzzles me too, but apparently USE_CAVE_ANIMALS + USE_EVIL_ANIMALS plus the fact that they are building destroyers is enough to make goblins to bring them as siege animals.

[Kaos]

I ran another test, this time, embarked with goblins, with use_any_pet_race, I checked their dark fortress in the local map, in all the local maps with a piece of the dark fortress I took note of the biomes:
*Temperate conifer forest
*Temperate grassland
*Temperate shrubland
*Temperate savanna
Most savagery is either calm or wilderness and one distant biome as serene...

So far so goood, I checked the animals they can embark and the pets and cross-referenced them to the biomes, I found these oddities:
No Worms, [pet]
No Pandas, [pet]
Has badgers but no giant badger, I suppose these giants need to have a savage biome??
the same with moose and giant moose, moose man....
No elk nor musox, [pet_exotic][benign]
No rhino lizards, nor fox squirrels, [pet_exotic][savage]
No demon rat, knukle worm nor phantom spiders, [evil][pet_exotic]
No moghoppers, they have pools since they do have toads....
No lizards, [pet_exotic]
No gray squirrels nor red squirrels but they do have chipmunks...

Underground is even more confusing, they got:
cap hoppers, elk birds, dralthas, gremlins, trolls, cave crocs, g. toads, g. olms, g. rats, g. moles, gcs, cave spiders, olms, bats,
cave swallow but no g. c. swallow [benign]...
No ogres
And plenty of other creatures that didn't make the cut, when they have the same biome tags...

So any idea?? I was inclined to think maybe it has to do with the benign and savage tags, as in savagery of the biomes, but that alone doesn't explain many of the cases... (and its a pain to check) maybe there's some limit to the creatures they can have access to? or something hard coded? (like the trolls)....

[AutomataKittay]

I believe that each biome just have a -chance- of creature belonging to it being there, not always. At least that's my understanding of biomes and the critters that comes from it. I'm not sure what other factors could influence it, possibly history of someone taming them?