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Author Topic: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike  (Read 1310054 times)

Girlinhat

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8580 on: December 20, 2011, 06:25:35 pm »

As I said, based on health, hunger/thirst, addiction, possibly the status of your inventory (how torn or shredded things are), maybe based off your skill levels.  Could have special event zombies that get a boost to their stats, giving a "leveled challenge" where you're suddenly on equal footing as you were at Day 1, and a good portion of the zombies are stronger than their brethren with simple scaling to HP and strength (think Oblivion's leveled monster style).  Although these would be mainly event monsters.  Regular greens would be stock level, it's the special cases where you get a challenge!

forsaken1111

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8581 on: December 20, 2011, 06:33:19 pm »

I meant like... how are you actually going to do it? What you said is very vague and sounds very complex to balance. You'd have to assign a numerical value to all of those things which somehow formulates an overall 'score' to use for the scaling process.

Skyrim does this by having actual levels. Terraria does it by overcoming certain challenges and thus opening up new ones.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8582 on: December 20, 2011, 07:01:44 pm »

Ah, like specifics?  Probably a weighted list and a serious of random numbers based on this list.  For instance, take your max head HP and your current head HP.  Say you've got 70% head health remaining.  Say your torso is 60% remaining.  That averages to 65% remaining.  Let's assume your total HP is 70%.  Now let's assume that you have a hunger level of 100 (the "Very Hungry" display), and that 200 is your dropoff for hunger measurements.  Therefor, you're at 50% hunger rating.  HP could count for double, so you've got (70*2)+50 / 2 would give you a rating of 95.  It would include other things as well, like factoring your thirst, pain, and power levels in similar weighted fashions, and then figure up a scale.  Because all of this would be based on percentages, it would run the same no matter your level.  After all, 4/4 power and 100/100 power are both 100% power, so your rating would be the same regardless of your actual stats.

Once it determined your rating, it would then plug your rating into a random number generator.  It could invert your rating for rising chances, like "100-rating", might give you "5" as the output, and then put that into a rng.  "one_in(inverse_rating)" to spawn a horde at all.  In this example you'd have a 1 in 5 chance of triggering a horde, 20%.  If you were doing better, like a 96 rating, then that would invert and give you a 1 in 4 chance, 25%.  In this way, you're more likely to trigger an event if you've got a higher rating.

Once it's triggered a horde, then it spawns a random number of zombies.  If you're doing poorly, say a 50% rating, then it might do a simple rng(0,rating) spawn, generating anywhere from 0 to 50 monsters.  If you've got a higher rating, in might spawn 0-95 monsters at once.  Well, probably a bit more balanced.  Something like rng((rating/5),(rating/2) so that would give you 20%-50% of your rating.  Rating of 50, it'd spawn 10-25 zombies.  Rating of 95, it'd spawn 19-47.5 (rounded 48) zombies.

After that, it would determine how many special zombies (shriekers, brutes, necromancers, etc) would be among them, and how much, if any, of an HP/damage/speed buff the greens should get.  It would likely do this based mainly on your skill, so if you've got 5 melee, 4 cutting, and 6 bashing, that'd average out to 5, and would scale zombie HP by, maybe, +10*skill, giving them a 50 HP bonus due to your skill levels.  Maybe something like +5*skill or somesuch.

I haven't thought of the specifics yet, but it would work in about this way.  Maybe once an hour while you're awake, or every 6 hours, it would run a horde check, so it wouldn't be checking rapidly and causing CPU drag, but would be functioning quickly enough that eventually it would happen.  Overall though, it should quickly spawn a large horde when you've got good HP and nutrition, and should slowly spawn a small mob when you've already been beat up and starved.  Hopefully, this idea would balance itself.  If you fight a horde and get heavily injured, then it'll be a while until another horde arrives.  It works to keep you just a little suppressed ;)

All theory.  I'd need to hash out some specific numbers if I were going to actually work on this, but you get the idea.

G-Flex

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8583 on: December 20, 2011, 07:14:40 pm »

Gameplay balancing based on how well the player is doing sounds like kind of a bad idea for an apocalyptic/survival game. I don't want a game like that to go easy on me just because I'm goofing up or playing poorly. I want it to be vicious and unforgiving.
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8584 on: December 20, 2011, 07:22:09 pm »

I see you have no problems with it becoming harder if you do well though :P
I approve.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8585 on: December 20, 2011, 07:24:00 pm »

Oh, it'll still be all the existing issues, just the ADDED torment of hordes ruining your good moon.

Could also include a character creation perk costing 0 point (I think I can do that, anyways) and then add it to the equation.  If you're playing with the "hardcore" perk, all random horde effects get doubled!  Or something.

forsaken1111

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8586 on: December 20, 2011, 08:22:57 pm »

screw all that, just make the ground into zombies. There is no wasteland. You're constantly walking on a sea of zombies. Try surviving!
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Trapezohedron

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8587 on: December 20, 2011, 08:25:58 pm »

I really want to play the latest Windows version of Cataclysm, but sadly, it's both buggy and nigh-unplayable. If anyone has compiled the latest version for Windows, may I ask for a download of their copy?
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Girlinhat

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8588 on: December 20, 2011, 08:33:23 pm »

Dual-booting Linux or running a Linux Emulator is your best bet.  The Windows version is currently more a "proof of theory" than anything.  It should hopefully get a few bugs plucked out at a time, but Whales has pretty much stated "Linux will pretty much always be the default platform."

On the plus side, now you know what it feels like to be a Linux/Mac user and see something awesome released "For PC only."

G-Flex

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8589 on: December 20, 2011, 08:49:27 pm »

I see you have no problems with it becoming harder if you do well though :P
I approve.

Except those are effectively the same thing. It can't become harder if you do well without becoming easier if you do less well.
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8590 on: December 20, 2011, 08:57:28 pm »

Yeah it could, it could get harder without getting easier again, all it means is that if you're doing well, then start doing not so well, it stops increasing in difficulty.

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G-Flex

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8591 on: December 20, 2011, 08:59:43 pm »

I don't think you get what I'm trying to say. If doing well means things get harder, that necessarily means, comparatively speaking, that doing less well means that things are easier. It doesn't really matter which you choose as the baseline. You can't penalize for good play without effectively rewarding poor play.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8592 on: December 20, 2011, 09:00:07 pm »

On the plus side, now you know what it feels like to be a Linux/Mac user and see something awesome released "For PC only."
Nope, still don't know what its like. I run all 3 OS as needed.
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The Merchant Of Menace

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8593 on: December 20, 2011, 09:14:59 pm »

I don't think you get what I'm trying to say. If doing well means things get harder, that necessarily means, comparatively speaking, that doing less well means that things are easier. It doesn't really matter which you choose as the baseline. You can't penalize for good play without effectively rewarding poor play.
Yeah, I looked back and realized this after I'd posted, sorry 'bout that.

I think the alternative suggested was just scaling based on how long you've survived, which is a much better system.
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Paul

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Re: Cataclysm: A Zombie-Survival Roguelike
« Reply #8594 on: December 20, 2011, 09:36:00 pm »

Admittedly I haven't played in a while, but the game already gets harder as time goes on, does it not? Special zombies start showing up more, foods start going bad so that scavenging isn't as easy, etc.

I for one am 100% against any kind of level or power based scaling. Hated it in every game I've seen it in.

I honestly never understood the desire for it. If the world is going to "level up" with you, whats the point of leveling up? Why even have any kind of character advancement if it's made meaningless by everything else staying equal to you?
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