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[enigma74]

Hmm, quick question:

I'm using the latest windows port, and I can't get the wish-debug command to work.  I'm trying to wish for a purifier to test some stuff out.  However, I can't type in anything in the wish command prompt.  No matter what I press on my keyboard, the prompt remains blank and I get 'none' has an item.  I now have 4 'nones'.

My real question is this: What bad traits does purifier remove?  I'm looking at all the expensive negatives like hoarder, savant, schizophrenic, illiterate, and asthmatic.

[Whales]

A couple quick thoughts after playing the new version a bit

1. Gun stores should have a higher chance of stocking ammo for guns they have. I get you probably didn't want people to just hit up a gun store and be totally set, but I just went to one that had like 7 ak-47's and 0 ammo for them, as well a ton of different types of pistols... and ammo for only 1 of those pistols. On the other hand, they had TONS of shotgun shells but not a single shotgun. Some sanity would be nice.

2. Horder is fun, but there should be some cap on the -happy. I went from starting clothes to fully kitted out (started right next to a clothing store) and had like -80 morale or something. Then again, it made me go on a mad rush to grab EVERYTHING in sight, so I guess it's at least somewhat working as intended.

3. Fast reader is incredibly good for 1 point. I don't know if it should be nerfed or made more expensive or left alone, but it's *much* better then I expected it to be for the price.

4. A good memory bonus trait would be nice. We've got forgetful that makes skills erode faster, good memory would make them not erode at all (or maybe erode very very slowly). It should probably be fairly expensive, though.

5. Trigger happy is 100% free points for a melee-based (or pistol/rifle/shotgun based) char. Not really sure what to do about it, maybe rework it so it just makes you randomly attack the last target 3 - 4 times in a row with no other actions allowed, then rename it poor impulse control or something?

6. Fast learner is bugged, I think. It's supposed to be 50% skill comprehension bonus but, with 1 intelligence it raises it from 6% to 53%, 8 intelligence it only boosts it from 80% to 90%, with 11 intelligence it actually lowers it from 114% to 107%. This really does not seem correct.

1. It's mimicking a post-panic state I guess, where people just grabbed stuff.  Also, with no guarantee of finding a weapon/ammo combo in a single given store, the player is forced to check more often, and grab a variety of weapons to increase their chances of finding a match.

2.  It is a bit severe, but taking Xanax will decrease the penalty significantly.  I'm considering doing another overhaul of morale, in which case Hoarder would probably receive a rebalance.

3.  Yeah, I might up that to 2 points.  However, its usefulness sharply declines after you finish reading the books available to you.

4.  Skills erode slow enough as it is, I think.  Removing erosion altogether would be too big of a bonus, though.

5.  This is true.  I've been considering making it into a "Rage" trait or something--ocassionally sending the player into a state where they can't take any non-attack actions for a few turns.  Might just remove it.

6.  Fixed, thank you!

Hmm, quick question:

I'm using the latest windows port, and I can't get the wish-debug command to work.  I'm trying to wish for a purifier to test some stuff out.  However, I can't type in anything in the wish command prompt.  No matter what I press on my keyboard, the prompt remains blank and I get 'none' has an item.  I now have 4 'nones'.

My real question is this: What bad traits does purifier remove?  I'm looking at all the expensive negatives like hoarder, savant, schizophrenic, illiterate, and asthmatic.

Press '/' on the wish screen to start typing in your search query.  It's not very user-friendly right now, I admit.

Purifier removes bad traits that could be seen as genetically predisposed; schizo and asthmatic are included here.  I'm consdering making purifier not remove any traits that the player begins with, to prevent this exploitable area.

[Leatra]

You'd be in the US if you put a supermarket in the picture below.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So true.

[enigma74]

Thanks Whales, it worked perfectly.  I think this is quickly becoming my favorite roguelike, just barely nudging out Caves of Qud.  Oh, and schizo isn't counted as genetic, just checked.

[Mephansteras]

3. Fast reader is incredibly good for 1 point. I don't know if it should be nerfed or made more expensive or left alone, but it's *much* better then I expected it to be for the price.

I would say that reading in general is too good. Reading is essentially free skill points, and anything that makes that easier is going to be pretty nice.

I think the chances of gaining skill points from reading should be reduced. After all, you won't necessarily remember everything you read. And reading is rarely a good substitute for hands-on experience. However, having a book in your possession (especially a meaty book with a lot of info in it) would make tasks easier. Even if I don't remember how to do some bit of electronics work if I have a book with me on the subject that I can refer to it makes things much easier. Of course, it also takes longer if you're referring to a book.

This would make building up a stash of books much more useful as well as make books/reading a little less powerful overall. It would also make Fast Reader more balanced since it would be useful longer but wouldn't be quite as powerful for getting skill points.

[G-Flex]

I think the chances of gaining skill points from reading should be reduced. After all, you won't necessarily remember everything you read. And reading is rarely a good substitute for hands-on experience. However, having a book in your possession (especially a meaty book with a lot of info in it) would make tasks easier. Even if I don't remember how to do some bit of electronics work if I have a book with me on the subject that I can refer to it makes things much easier. Of course, it also takes longer if you're referring to a book.

This would make building up a stash of books much more useful as well as make books/reading a little less powerful overall. It would also make Fast Reader more balanced since it would be useful longer but wouldn't be quite as powerful for getting skill points.

My suggestion (I forget if it was here or on whales' forums) was to have reading not increase skill directly at all, instead temporarily increasing your comprehension rate for that skill. This way, reading still helps, but you also need to practice. I feel like this would be good for gameplay (better balance, makes starting skills matter more however we select those in the future, makes it less of a foregone conclusion that you'll have certain levels of skills and less trivial to gain, say, enough electronics skill to build internal battery CBMs out of flashlights), and also more realistic (as study alone is hardly ever enough to engage in practical work without at least a tiny bit of practice).

So basically, you read the electronics book a few times, and as long as you satisfy the int/skill requirements (above a certain int, above/below a certain skill minimum and maximum) you get a temporary but significant bonus to how quickly you learn that skill when you practice. Ideally the bonus should last a good while, though.

[Greiger]

What about books like that knife fighting book though?  It's not like you can refer to that during combat (although that would seem hilarious and feel like something out of Shawn of the Dead) for a skill bonus for having the book handy, and it's not something you could do quickly enough to get a learning bonus with. ("Oh look a horde of zombies, time to take 15 minutes to read spetsnaz before I jump into the fray")

Perhaps a hybrid system would be nice.  You can gain some skill from reading alone, as well as getting something like the fast learner perk for a short time in that particular skill, But having the book in your possession also provides a bonus to your skill(except for the aforementioned combat type skills).  If your skill is below the book's max skill perhaps your skill can be set to the book's skill for the purposes of crafting, because there may very well be a section of the book devoted to something similar to what you are trying to do. ("Oh hey, there's actually instructions for a lemon clock in a lab section here, that could apply here")  If your skill is above that of the book's max skill you just get a bonus to your skill of one or two thanks to having good reference materials handy. ("Huh what does a silver stripe on the resistor color code translate to again? I have the book handy, I guess I'll just look it up real fast instead of guessing.")

It still allows a complete novice to get a handle on the basics of how to do something, even if they don't have the stuff they need to do it immediately handy, keeps books from becoming completely worthless after you reach certain skill levels, and allows combat skill books to still be functional outside the realm of the absurd.

Probably a PITA to code though.

[ChairmanPoo]

3. Fast reader is incredibly good for 1 point. I don't know if it should be nerfed or made more expensive or left alone, but it's *much* better then I expected it to be for the price.

I would say that reading in general is too good. Reading is essentially free skill points, and anything that makes that easier is going to be pretty nice.

I think the chances of gaining skill points from reading should be reduced. After all, you won't necessarily remember everything you read. And reading is rarely a good substitute for hands-on experience. However, having a book in your possession (especially a meaty book with a lot of info in it) would make tasks easier. Even if I don't remember how to do some bit of electronics work if I have a book with me on the subject that I can refer to it makes things much easier. Of course, it also takes longer if you're referring to a book.

This would make building up a stash of books much more useful as well as make books/reading a little less powerful overall. It would also make Fast Reader more balanced since it would be useful longer but wouldn't be quite as powerful for getting skill points.

I like this a lot. For the record

[Blaze]

A few bugs:

1. Molotovs don't require a glass container, or any container at all. The container the fuel/liquor was held in is left in your inventory and you have a molotov that's held inside fragile air.

2. If you choose something that requires two of the same item, where one is on the floor and one is in your inventory, the game crashes "Debug: 0-Length Menu ("Use which component?)". It also gives no choice in what items to choose. Example: There are 2 heavy sticks and a steak knife nearby, you have a combat knife, a steak knife, and 2 3-ft strings in your inventory. The first time you craft a steel spear, it uses your combat knife without any confirmation, the second time it crashes.

3. Friendly turrets can shoot you if you're standing in front of a zombie. Though that may not be a bug.

4. Using a sewing kit to reinforce your clothes does not cost a charge. (There's also the previously mentioned crash bugs involving not picking applicable inventory items and/or pressing non-inventory keys for sewing and scissors).

You also may want to reduce the drops that eyebots and copbots give, they're easily farmable.

I also found a

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Portal Generator and V29 Laser Pistol

from a random event, I know what the latter does, but what about the former?

Some feature requests:

Could you add a Two-By-Four * 5 option to the crafting menu? Just to reduce the amount of button presses in deforestation.

A force-reload option so you don't have to keep pressing "N" whenever you're reloading and keep getting interrupted by noise and whatnot. It's a simple choice of "Y"es, "N"o, and "F"orce.

The finger-laser should act like the claws do, replacing your current hand slot and using the "f"ire button.

[G-Flex]

You also may want to reduce the drops that eyebots and copbots give, they're easily farmable.

I'd say the drops are just plain too random. I've killed robots and gotten literally nothing, and other times I've gotten like an entire page of goodies.

Could you add a Two-By-Four * 5 option to the crafting menu? Just to reduce the amount of button presses in deforestation.

Why be so specific? I'd rather have one of the following two options:

• A generic button on the keyboard to perform the last action taken (some other roguelikes have this, although I don't know that I've seen it done properly and I'm not sure how easy this would be).
• An option in the crafting menu to craft a user-inputted amount of whatever item you want.

[Whales]

A few bugs:

1. Molotovs don't require a glass container, or any container at all. The container the fuel/liquor was held in is left in your inventory and you have a molotov that's held inside fragile air.

2. If you choose something that requires two of the same item, where one is on the floor and one is in your inventory, the game crashes "Debug: 0-Length Menu ("Use which component?)". It also gives no choice in what items to choose. Example: There are 2 heavy sticks and a steak knife nearby, you have a combat knife, a steak knife, and 2 3-ft strings in your inventory. The first time you craft a steel spear, it uses your combat knife without any confirmation, the second time it crashes.

3. Friendly turrets can shoot you if you're standing in front of a zombie. Though that may not be a bug.

4. Using a sewing kit to reinforce your clothes does not cost a charge. (There's also the previously mentioned crash bugs involving not picking applicable inventory items and/or pressing non-inventory keys for sewing and scissors).

You also may want to reduce the drops that eyebots and copbots give, they're easily farmable.

I also found a

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Portal Generator and V29 Laser Pistol

from a random event, I know what the latter does, but what about the former?

Some feature requests:

Could you add a Two-By-Four * 5 option to the crafting menu? Just to reduce the amount of button presses in deforestation.

A force-reload option so you don't have to keep pressing "N" whenever you're reloading and keep getting interrupted by noise and whatnot. It's a simple choice of "Y"es, "N"o, and "F"orce.

The finger-laser should act like the claws do, replacing your current hand slot and using the "f"ire button.

1. Bleh I know, not sure of the best way to fix this right now.

2.  Fixed in the most recent version, I believe.

3.  Not a bug, fully intended

4.  Definitely fixed in the most recent version.

The former is present useless, it'll be handy in the future.

Finger-laser uses a charge every time you fire, so must be activated every time you fire.

[Blaze]

You could just add a glass bottle (Or other containers that might work in theory) to the molotov crafting cost. Or does the container system break that?

The finger laser may need a nerf, it has a cheap firing cost (With the currently OP internal furnace) to it's relatively high damage potential (due to burning), and takes no time to fire.

Also, minor typo: The Geiger counter's activation menu has "3: Turn continuous scan off" when it should say "on".

[G-Flex]

Finger-laser uses a charge every time you fire, so must be activated every time you fire.

Currently, yes, but it would be more convenient for it to use a charge every time you fire a shot using the 'f' key. Of course, that means you wouldn't be able to use it when you're holding a weapon, which may or may not be good.

[Farce]

1. Gun stores should have a higher chance of stocking ammo for guns they have. I get you probably didn't want people to just hit up a gun store and be totally set, but I just went to one that had like 7 ak-47's and 0 ammo for them, as well a ton of different types of pistols... and ammo for only 1 of those pistols. On the other hand, they had TONS of shotgun shells but not a single shotgun. Some sanity would be nice.

I don't know, this actually seems reasonable to me. Assumedly someone has already ransacked the store. It makes sense that the only stuff left would be things that they couldn't use. So you'd have extra guns with no ammo for them, and the only ammo left would be stuff they couldn't stuff into their pockets or didn't fit guns they actually had.

So maybe a "little" more reasonable about it, but it's not like the gun store would likely have much left. After all, you can't be the first person to think "Zombies! Need guns!"

Remember, the game isn't done yet, and you're technically the only person alive in the whole zombie-infested world.  Once NPCs are in, stores will theoretically be able to be looted before you get to them - and you might occasionally find a pristine one, if you manage to be the first to get to it.  As they are now, they should totally generate themselves to be stocked as a normal gun store would be, so once NPCs are put back in (next major update, right?) they won't have to be reworked or whatever.

This is definitely not in any way influenced by my complete inability to ever find bullets for my guns.

[enigma74]

Can anyone tell me where in the source are the weapon noise tables?  I'm having no luck so far.