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[Whales]

I really don't think that zombies should just *spawn* out of nowhere.  My current character started with the metal claws upgrade and the food-to-energy upgrade, so by day two I had slaughtered and butchered every single zombie I came across, at death on day 12 I had 10000 zombie kills, frankly since I started in a really small town that should have cleared the area.  There seriously needs to be area-infestation pools which have a set number, that the zombies that spawn are drawn from, sort of like DF animals, but with the addition that lot's of noise or death in a particular area will draw in zombies from surrounding pools increasing that pools spawn number.  That way when a gasstation in the middle of town is hit by lightening and blows up you can set the f'ing town on fire and actually decrease the amount of zombies after you.

10000 kills?  Wow, you're a zombie-killing machine!  Every "town" has a population of between 320 and 1360 zombies, depending on its size.  Note that multiple small towns may be placed close together, making it seem like one big one.  As you kill zombies (or any other monster), it will detract from the population count, and make spawns smaller.  Also, as you move through an initially-circular spawn area, it will get drawn out to follow you (like drawing your finger across a circle of wet paint on paper).

I dislike how the current zombies are pretty much absolute knockoffs from Left For Dead and such. I think it'd be great to include more variety.

If anything, I wouldn't mind sharing some ideas for names, stats, and types of creatures, though my style is a bit more scifi/genetic than simply zombie.

Variety is good and suggestions are welcome!  Yes, the Boomer is a shameless knockoff from Left 4 Dead (but back in the olden days when I started Cataclysm, it was meant to be a roguelike L4D!), and the spitter is a case of convergent design (I'd thought of the spitter before playing L4D2; it's a good mechanic that forces the player to alter their route), but skeletons, shriekers, necromancers, and fungal zombies are all pretty original, no?
I've built the game to spawn only vanilla zombies before, and it is boring.  Without some differences to shake the game up, it becomes WAY too easy and repetitive.
When designing new zombie types, it's a good idea to ask yourself the question: "What strategy is too easy?  What method of fighting works across the board?"  Boomers are used to encourage ranged combat.  Skeletons are used to essentially force the player to melee, unless they can run.  Fast zombies are used to force the player who runs away from everything to stop and fight (brutes too, but they're basically tougher versions).  Spitters introduce complications in your short term plans ("I'm gonna escape down that alleyway!  Or no, my escape route is covered in acid!").  Shockers encourage long-range combat, or careful zig-zagging and avoidance of their bolts.  Shriekers and necromancers give the player an immediate, pressing goal, forcing a bit more tactics than "kill whatever's closest."  And Hulks require the player to think on their toes and use their emergency items, be it molotovs, a burst of armor-piercing rounds, or simply very clever escape tactics.

On the subject of mod/mode variety, it'd be great to have different settings/modes either in-game during initial creation or by mod installation, that will shift the balance between something like an initial zombie outbreak that progresses in strength and numbers, or a mutagenic malfunction that spawns all sort of horrific Lovecraftian creatures, the story/specifics of which you're tasked with discovering. I'm going for the latter in the game I'm planning on making.

I like the idea of it being progressive, as in for newbies you should start with vanilla and work your way up, while hardcore players can opt to start in a more slimy, radiation-filled hellish wasteland.

I mix the two ideas.  Currently, the types of zombies gradually increase over the first few in-game days--fast enough to force character progression and the collection of tools, but slow enough that you can take some time to read books and stuff.  ANd the game is crawling with non-zombie monsters and horrific Lovecraftian creatures, but you only enounter them via exploration--moving the choice of how hard the monsters you encounter are to an in-game decision, rather than an artificial-feeling difficulty level.

Trawling through the files I notice some references to weapon loudness but they seem to not be used? Is this a feature that has yet to be implemented? Is it true that a shogun fires at the same volume as a pistol or smg?

Also I've already started modding a Dawn of the Dead (remake) fast zombies type spin off where weapons are more deadly but there are more zombies.

No, they are used, guns all fire at different volumes depending on the ammo used.

[justinlee999]

Don't worry about me introducing new features, I probably wouldn't, what I want though is to give cataclysm the 1930s feel. For now it will just be firearms, clothing ,and stuff like that

[matric]

Trawling through the files I notice some references to weapon loudness but they seem to not be used? Is this a feature that has yet to be implemented? Is it true that a shogun fires at the same volume as a pistol or smg?

Also I've already started modding a Dawn of the Dead (remake) fast zombies type spin off where weapons are more deadly but there are more zombies.

I've been working on the wiki and this is one of the things that I am having trouble finding. ranged.cpp mentions p.weapon.sound yet I can't find where that is calculated for the weapon. I will continue to look.

Ah, I think this is it. From item.cpp line 856

Code: [Select]

int item::noise()
{
 if (!is_gun())
  return 0;
 int ret = 0;
 if (curammo != NULL)
  ret = curammo->damage * .8;
 if (ret >= 5)
  ret += 20;
 for (int i = 0; i < contents.size(); i++) {
  if (contents[i].is_gunmod())
   ret += (dynamic_cast<it_gunmod*>(contents[i].type))->loudness;
 }
 return ret;
}


[kilakan]

When was the populations implemented because I am still playing a few weeks old version.  Though a queen trifid finnally got me.  Stupid 40 dmg chest hits.  also note more then half those kills were with a combat knife, for some reason i could not find anything better.

[Shingo]

I'd like to request a conversion kit to make a Rifle shoot .30-06 rounds.

[Whales]

When was the populations implemented because I am still playing a few weeks old version.  Though a queen trifid finnally got me.  Stupid 40 dmg chest hits.  also note more then half those kills were with a combat knife, for some reason i could not find anything better.

The populations were implemented in the year 2009, I think 

[kilakan]

When was the populations implemented because I am still playing a few weeks old version.  Though a queen trifid finnally got me.  Stupid 40 dmg chest hits.  also note more then half those kills were with a combat knife, for some reason i could not find anything better.

The populations were implemented in the year 2009, I think 

whelp guess I must have inadvertently wandered off just as the pop's reached 0.  Also triffids are a pain in the ass, so many, so strong and they seem  to pop-up everywhere.
edit*They also don't really fit with the zombie game.. I mean triffids are alien plants.

[FunctionZero]

I don't know if I should be bothered about modders picking up a game this early in development...be careful not to produce a "minecraft effect" where the original coder has trouble implementing promised features because modders did them faster.

If a coder makes an interesting and useful feature, it could probably only help Whales, since he doesn't have to figure it out himself.

Remember that these aren't really mods. These are whole new versions of the core game. Branches.
So they don't really have to have any effect on the development itself.

[iceball3]

When was the populations implemented because I am still playing a few weeks old version.  Though a queen trifid finnally got me.  Stupid 40 dmg chest hits.  also note more then half those kills were with a combat knife, for some reason i could not find anything better.

The populations were implemented in the year 2009, I think 

whelp guess I must have inadvertently wandered off just as the pop's reached 0.  Also triffids are a pain in the ass, so many, so strong and they seem  to pop-up everywhere.
edit*They also don't really fit with the zombie game.. I mean triffids are alien plants.

They may be mutated instead, which may sorta fit with the radiation and stuff all around.

[Ehndras]

When was the populations implemented because I am still playing a few weeks old version.  Though a queen trifid finnally got me.  Stupid 40 dmg chest hits.  also note more then half those kills were with a combat knife, for some reason i could not find anything better.

The populations were implemented in the year 2009, I think 

whelp guess I must have inadvertently wandered off just as the pop's reached 0.  Also triffids are a pain in the ass, so many, so strong and they seem  to pop-up everywhere.
edit*They also don't really fit with the zombie game.. I mean triffids are alien plants.

That's the point Just vanilla zombies is boring!

[GlyphGryph]

@GlyphGryph
More cooking tools? I disagree. It'll complicate things too much to do pretty much the same thing. And anyway, for most kitchen tasks you barely need a few utensils (we are talking survival cooking here)
At most we'd need an oven or oil, but let's not pollute the item pool too much.

A camping stove is mostly what we need, I think, something that uses up worthless gas instead of precious batteries.
A temporary stopgap for a fire at the moment may be a "grill" item that can be refilled with a "wooden chunks" item crafted from other wooden items. It would be pretty heavy and bulky, perhaps, but that would at least help the problem, right?

Also, Whales, if you're thinking of adding some more mechanical zombie variety, I've got some ideas:
Prowlers - These zombies will NOT path to the player. They will stay as far away as possible while continuing to follow the player, though. They are small, fairly weak, and pretty fast. Their  main behavior is to follow and howl, attracting other zombies to the player. As a possible behaviour extension, they could occasionally attack sleeping players, or as part of large groups. Now THIS is something that will make guns important, I think.
Venom Zombies - Another ranged-needed style zombie, these zombies are fairly slow and can be outpaced, and aren't very strong, but they have a chance of poisoning the player. Poison resistance helps, of course.

Those two could even technically be combined (and given hit and run behavior and/or made to travel in groups) to become another Hulk-power-level uber-zombie, but one that ISN'T based on pure strength.

Since bullets do the same damage as the bulk of melee weapons though, I'm not entirely sure how to make more units you want to close in and melee with... perhaps inviso-enemies that are really hard to hit or even notice with ranged attacks, but not as hard to hit with melee attacks?

They also don't really fit with the zombie game.. I mean triffids are alien plants.

Spend some more time in the labs - this isn't a zombie game, its a cataclysm game. Zombies are just one of the more prevalent symptoms.

[KimeK]

When was the populations implemented because I am still playing a few weeks old version.  Though a queen trifid finnally got me.  Stupid 40 dmg chest hits.  also note more then half those kills were with a combat knife, for some reason i could not find anything better.

The populations were implemented in the year 2009, I think 

whelp guess I must have inadvertently wandered off just as the pop's reached 0.  Also triffids are a pain in the ass, so many, so strong and they seem  to pop-up everywhere.
edit*They also don't really fit with the zombie game.. I mean triffids are alien plants.

it's cool actually, you encounter things that you're not expecting. like

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

those weird things down in the labs.

also, you just gave me an idea of removing all zombies and modding in xenomorphs. oh man, would that be fun!

[Whales]

When was the populations implemented because I am still playing a few weeks old version.  Though a queen trifid finnally got me.  Stupid 40 dmg chest hits.  also note more then half those kills were with a combat knife, for some reason i could not find anything better.

The populations were implemented in the year 2009, I think 

whelp guess I must have inadvertently wandered off just as the pop's reached 0.  Also triffids are a pain in the ass, so many, so strong and they seem  to pop-up everywhere.
edit*They also don't really fit with the zombie game.. I mean triffids are alien plants.

It's not a zombie game, it's a monster apocalypse game.

I don't know if I should be bothered about modders picking up a game this early in development...be careful not to produce a "minecraft effect" where the original coder has trouble implementing promised features because modders did them faster.

If a coder makes an interesting and useful feature, it could probably only help Whales, since he doesn't have to figure it out himself.

Remember that these aren't really mods. These are whole new versions of the core game. Branches.
So they don't really have to have any effect on the development itself.

Cataclysm is a hobby for me; it's not my job, I don't make money off it, so it's something I do in my spare time.  As such, I don't have nearly as much time for development as I'd like.  I can only implement features so fast, and sometimes I don't feel like coding for a week or two, so any patches/mods/features people want to submit are greatly appreciated.  Email them, people!

@GlyphGryph
More cooking tools? I disagree. It'll complicate things too much to do pretty much the same thing. And anyway, for most kitchen tasks you barely need a few utensils (we are talking survival cooking here)
At most we'd need an oven or oil, but let's not pollute the item pool too much.

A camping stove is mostly what we need, I think, something that uses up worthless gas instead of precious batteries.
A temporary stopgap for a fire at the moment may be a "grill" item that can be refilled with a "wooden chunks" item crafted from other wooden items. It would be pretty heavy and bulky, perhaps, but that would at least help the problem, right?

Also, Whales, if you're thinking of adding some more mechanical zombie variety, I've got some ideas:
Prowlers - These zombies will NOT path to the player. They will stay as far away as possible while continuing to follow the player, though. They are small, fairly weak, and pretty fast. Their  main behavior is to follow and howl, attracting other zombies to the player. As a possible behaviour extension, they could occasionally attack sleeping players, or as part of large groups. Now THIS is something that will make guns important, I think.
Venom Zombies - Another ranged-needed style zombie, these zombies are fairly slow and can be outpaced, and aren't very strong, but they have a chance of poisoning the player. Poison resistance helps, of course.

Those two could even technically be combined (and given hit and run behavior and/or made to travel in groups) to become another Hulk-power-level uber-zombie, but one that ISN'T based on pure strength.

Since bullets do the same damage as the bulk of melee weapons though, I'm not entirely sure how to make more units you want to close in and melee with... perhaps inviso-enemies that are really hard to hit or even notice with ranged attacks, but not as hard to hit with melee attacks?

The camping stove is a planned addition, thanks to everyone who suggested it!
I like both those zombie variety ideas and will add them in at some point, and probably tweak them until they give interesting gameplay.

Making ranged weapons less viable isn't as much of a priority for me, since most players seem to opt for melee, and ranged weapons already have the issues of ammo supply, noise, higher chance to miss, etc.

[jc6036]

Im almost afraid to go looting now, as a bunch of zombies get on my scent trail and proceed to futtbuck me all the way down the road farirly quickly. Almost all of my characters use my melee build now, so its not so much of a problem.

[Drevlin]

Prowlers - These zombies will NOT path to the player. They will stay as far away as possible while continuing to follow the player, though. They are small, fairly weak, and pretty fast. Their  main behavior is to follow and howl, attracting other zombies to the player. As a possible behaviour extension, they could occasionally attack sleeping players, or as part of large groups. Now THIS is something that will make guns important, I think.

That's cool!