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[Leafsnail]

I'm glad people are assuming that a single experience of "God has abandoned me" equals "I MUST NOT BE A CHRISTIAN ANYMORE". It's not like this issue has come up before for almost anyone who is a Christian.

Wait, who's assuming that? Euld?

I personally didn't say anything of the sort.  Rather that a more structural change in beliefs (possibly to a less interventive God) is required than simply changing whether he thinks his God hates gay people or not.

I should probably stay out of this line of discussion, but it's worth noting that UU (since that was the main alternative denomination I saw mentioned) is only marginally "Christian". My wife is UU, and our kids are sorta getting raised UU. I say "sorta" because it's hard for me to imagine how one would be a "devout" Unitarian, beyond just really really loving the act of drinking coffee. 

You don't need to be devout or even have a capacity for being devout to be a Christian, surely?  I mean, isn't the defining idea to do with Jesus?

[Willfor]

Everyone assumes they are Phmcw, but no one can be as cool as he is.

[RedKing]

I should probably stay out of this line of discussion, but it's worth noting that UU (since that was the main alternative denomination I saw mentioned) is only marginally "Christian". My wife is UU, and our kids are sorta getting raised UU. I say "sorta" because it's hard for me to imagine how one would be a "devout" Unitarian, beyond just really really loving the act of drinking coffee. 

You don't need to be devout or even have a capacity for being devout to be a Christian, surely?  I mean, isn't the defining idea to do with Jesus?

Yeah, which (at least in my wife's church) isn't even a requirement to be a UU. UU's can believe in Jesus in a "metaphorical sense" or in a historical but non-divine sense, or even just eschew the issue altogether. It's inclusivity and open-mindedness taken to a point where there's just not much left to define the religion, which is why I'm kinda openly dismissive of it and don't go there myself.

[Phmcw]

Everyone assumes they are Phmcw, but no one can be as cool as he is.

Damn straight.

I'm glad people are assuming that a single experience of "God has abandoned me" equals "I MUST NOT BE A CHRISTIAN ANYMORE".

No one assume that. But he believed that god quite literally hated gays, and self loathing is never a good path to take. I said before that homosexuality and being a Christian are not incompatible, and told there that being an atheist is also a possibility (that he opened himself).

[freeformschooler]

Yeah, you're right. It wouldn't. But previously we were having a discussion I believe on how the Christian church is incompatible with homosexuality. I was just pointing out that's not necessary true.

I should probably stay out of this line of discussion, but it's worth noting that UU (since that was the main alternative denomination I saw mentioned) is only marginally "Christian". My wife is UU, and our kids are sorta getting raised UU. I say "sorta" because it's hard for me to imagine how one would be a "devout" Unitarian, beyond just really really loving the act of drinking coffee. 

I'm sorry for the confusion here, I should have cleared it up. When I refer to me going to "the Christian church", I'm meaning that on some sundays I go to an actual Episcopalian Christian church, mostly because my dad is on the administrative board there. I don't really get much out of it. That's the one I was talking about that has members across the LGBT spectrum.

On the other sundays, I go to our only UU church.

It's hard to say that a UU church is "marginally Christian" or "marginally" anything because without asking it's hard to tell another member's belief system. UU churches aren't so much built for a religion as they are built for people of all religions and non-religion. I didn't mean to imply that UU's are a Christian church or anything. Even though I'm sure there are some Christians in the one I go to

[Leafsnail]

Yeah, which (at least in my wife's church) isn't even a requirement to be a UU. UU's can believe in Jesus in a "metaphorical sense" or in a historical but non-divine sense, or even just eschew the issue altogether. It's inclusivity and open-mindedness taken to a point where there's just not much left to define the religion, which is why I'm kinda openly dismissive of it and don't go there myself.

And so, like all my other favourite sect (Quakers), most people don't recognise it as Christian :\.

Although even if it doesn't get the Christian brand, I still think it's pretty good (since there's nothing inherently good or bad about the Christianity label).

[RedKing]

Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. There's nothing harmful about UU, IMHO. It's a good place for the kids to get exposure to a variety of belief systems in a non-judgemental way. It's just that there's no "meat" to it.

I got nothing against Unitarians or Quakers. We got plenty of Quakers in North Carolina too. Some of my best friends are Quaker (not intended to be sarcastic...I actually have some good friends who, were in fact, raised Quaker).

[Jackrabbit]

Hey, I'm glad you managed to come out about it. I don't know if it'll get easier for you from here on out but it did for me.

That said, I'm bisexual and there seems to be less stigma associate with that. The tradeoff being the stigma comes from both straight and gay sides.

[Euld]

I'm glad people are assuming that a single experience of "God has abandoned me" equals "I MUST NOT BE A CHRISTIAN ANYMORE". It's not like this issue has come up before for almost anyone who is a Christian.

You make a good point.  This wouldn't be the first time I felt like God had abandoned me, only to suddenly start talking to me again and giving me guidance.  We just haven't reached the "talking" part yet, but this time... the silence has been going on for like a year I think?  Part of me wants to just drop it and begin a life of materialistic, carnal bliss.  The other part of me misses God really, really badly.  You can't beat having a friend you can telepathically speak to about anything anytime, who also guides and cares for you, never blames you, but is willing to call you out on personal flaws that are getting out of control.  Switching denominations wouldn't really help with this, it would pretty much be the same God, different rules, different theology.  Heck I'm non-denominational Christian for a reason, I don't want rules getting in the way

Now I never believed God hated me for being gay, I believed (or still believe?) that he hates the sin and loves the sinner.  I believed God created me straight, but then something happened during my childhood (NOT rape) that led me to becoming gay.  My mother is very overbearing, bossy, and always more than willing to get into a screaming argument with my dad anytime.  When dad was flying for the air force, we moved around a lot, so I never had a chance to make real friends, especially with girls, and see that my mother is the exception, not the rule.  Or I could just be gay.  Which reminds me.  Does anyone have a link to a site or news article about the current theory (or proven fact) about how or why people end up gay?

[G-Flex]

Part of me wants to just drop it and begin a life of materialistic, carnal bliss.  The other part of me misses God really, really badly.

To be completely fair, those aren't the only two options.

You can't beat having a friend you can telepathically speak to about anything anytime, who also guides and cares for you, never blames you, but is willing to call you out on personal flaws that are getting out of control.

"Never blames you"? Judging by the flavor of Christianity you seem to have been brought up into, you think that God considers homosexual behavior to not only be a choice, but a choice that will land you in Hell. That's not "blaming"? You say later that he "hates the sin". How can he hate what you do, and hold you accountable for it, without "blaming" you?

Which reminds me.  Does anyone have a link to a site or news article about the current theory (or proven fact) about how or why people end up gay?

This is not a question you will ever find a simple answer to, because it is not a simple thing. You'll find all kinds of theories, some more evidenced than others, but human sexuality is complicated enough that there is no straightforward answer. It's like asking what makes people like a certain kind of food or humor or ice cream, except a thousand times more complex/inconceivable. The best you can probably do is assume the entire person's life, and probably some of their genome, plays some role, somehow. You're not going to find a "gay gene", or find out that it's all up to some childhood trauma or parental behavior. Hell, the idea that people are "straight" or "gay" is fairly modern and limiting to begin with; people are more complicated than that when it comes to sexuality, including you, judging by what you've said.

[Vector]

All I know is that growing up with my harridan mom and being sexually abused by my first (and pretty much only) female friend--along with bullying from many, many female classmates--made me very uncomfortable around women, but didn't stop me from being attracted to them.

I say "stop" because, of course, I liked girls before that particular series of events.

[Ochita]

So far there has been no proven reason for gayness, and if we don't know, then why bother?
Its just who we are.

Plus I see homosexuality as not as sin, how can it be a sin to love someone, even if they are of the same sex?

[Fenrir]

Plus I see homosexuality as not as sin, how can it be a sin to love someone, even if they are of the same sex?

Homosexuality does not have much to do with love; it is a matter of sexuality, not love. Of course, there is just no reason to suppose that is a sin anyway.

[Nikov]

Time for me to shoot myself in the foot trying to set the record straight, because nobody cares to hear the truth anymore.

Spoiler: Religion and excessive line breaks. (click to show/hide)

Biblically speaking...

Marriage is between a man and a woman, who can then have sex.

Sex if you aren't married is adultery.

Adultery is a sin.

Marriage being between a man and a woman, homosexuals thus cannot have sex one another without committing adultery.

Thus homosexual acts are a sin.

God hates the sin.

God loves everyone.

All sins can be forgiven.

God loves homosexuals as much as anyone else.

Thus homosexuals can be forgiven.

Stealing is also a sin.

There are kleptomaniacs.

Kleptomaniacs can also be forgiven of their sins.

Heterosexual adultery is also a sin.

Adulterers can be forgven of their sins.

There are murderers.

Murder is a sin.

Murderers can also be forgiven of their sins.

Do I need to go on?

[G-Flex]

You don't need to go on because, whether you believe it or not, your views on the Bible are based in tradition and selective translation/interpretation. I've already provided an example or two of that. I'm not sure what your overall point is there except that sins can be forgiven, for that matter.