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[Euld]

I asked ThreeToe if this was ok, he said it was ok, and I've been putting it off forever, thinking I'd find a good time.  I guess now is a good time as any o_O  I'm sorry for the utter jerk I've been since... well probably since my first post in the upper forums.  Dunno if I'm just hard-wired to be like this.  In real life, nearly everyone I know says I'm one of the nicest people they know, yet I became the jerk here.  Sorry about that, it's a mystery to me.  I've been in lurking mode for a while to think about things, and I'm not sure if I can promise I'll be a nice guy like I should, but at least I can be more cautious about what I say.

Now here's where I'll probably incur the wrath of B12 again, hopefully I'll survive o_O  I'm gay.  NOT kidding.  Yes, one of the crazy religious conservative jerks here is one of those cliche'd "anti-gay but actually gay" folks.  No, this isn't a new development, been gay since... 2002?  8th grade, I remember the exact moment when I felt myself become gay, without warning, without any input on my part, absolutely no choice.  Why am I bringing this up?  I've been coming out to many of my friends recently, and I figure you guys might as well be next.  I know something like this doesn't matter to a lot of you, that's ok.  It matters to me, so I'll worry about it for ya.  I want to honestly discuss politics and religion here again, but I can't do it unless I come out of the closet.  Heck, I'm not sure what I'd argue for or against, I'm even questioning if I want to believe in God anymore.

[Max White]

Well I'm ok with it.
Feel good to get that off your chest?

[Heliman]

More chicks for me I always say.


EDIT: come to think of it, how many gay/les people do we have here? I know one other but IDK if he/she has officially come out of the closet here so I won't say.

[Max White]

I'm pretty certain that Ochita is gay, and Vector is bi. Although that is just going from memory, so I'm might be dead wrong, or giving out information I shouldn't be.
Also, Merchant is les, both of them.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

This is a good step to take. Continue coming out to people untill you've done it to everyone you know. That's including those who you already know will dissaprove, unless you think they'll try to harm you for it. There's nothing worse than to live in fear, or to live hiding somthing. Besides, actually knowing someone who's gay might very well shatter their negative views on the matter.

I'm even questioning if I want to believe in God anymore.

I question why anyone who's gay would want to believe in God at all. Let's not kid ourselves here, we all know that most people who hate gay people do so for religious reasons. Even if everyone in the religion doesn't think like that, that's the truth of the matter. It just seems masochistic to me for gay people to continue being part of these religions, given that.

[Sensei]

Now here's where I'll probably incur the wrath of B12 again, hopefully I'll survive

No offense -in fact coming out of the closet should be a pretty big deal to you- but I think you're overestimating the difference this makes to us, internet people.

[Heliman]

I'm even questioning if I want to believe in God anymore.

I question why anyone who's gay would want to believe in God at all. Let's not kid ourselves here, we all know that most people who hate gay people do so for religious reasons. Even if everyone in the religion doesn't think like that, that's the truth of the matter. It just seems masochistic to me for gay people to continue being part of these religions, given that.

Now I don't agree with this very much. Belief in God does not equate to being apart of an organization that hates you, especially since a belief in god doesn't need to be shackled to a popular religious organization in order to be considered faith.

[Scaraban]

This is teh internettz, we've seen everything and more.
That said, thumbs up for working up to coming out.

[Heliman]

Actually come to think of it I'm not to in tune with the whole gay-rights threads that have been flying around recently, are there ANY people here who would be up in arms about this stuff?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm even questioning if I want to believe in God anymore.

I question why anyone who's gay would want to believe in God at all. Let's not kid ourselves here, we all know that most people who hate gay people do so for religious reasons. Even if everyone in the religion doesn't think like that, that's the truth of the matter. It just seems masochistic to me for gay people to continue being part of these religions, given that.

Now I don't agree with this very much. Belief in God does not equate to being apart of an organization that hates you, especially since a belief in god doesn't need to be shackled to a popular religious organization in order to be considered faith.

No, it doesn't. But that's my opinion on the matter, and I won't just throw away knowing about centuries of oppression because there are pro-gay churches now. The anti-gay ones have been around for far longer, and they are what the pro-gay ones broke off of, not the other way around. That's for the abrahamic religions, anyway, which are more likely than not the God Euld was reffering to.

Actually come to think of it I'm not to in tune with the whole gay-rights threads that have been flying around recently, are there ANY people here who would be up in arms about this stuff?

Nikov wouldn't, judging by an old quote of his about not being concerned about gay people. If he, our Most Conservative Forumite wouldn't, I have my doubts about anyone else holding such a belief.

[Heliman]

No, it doesn't. But that's my opinion on the matter, and I won't just throw away knowing about centuries of oppression because there are pro-gay churches now. The anti-gay ones have been around for far longer, and they are what the pro-gay ones broke off of, not the other way around. That's for the abrahamic religions, anyway, which are more likely than not the God Euld was reffering to.

Ah, but there's the crux of the argument, because this seems to just be a difference in perspectives: is a religion made by God, or the people? If there is a person with faith in God who believes that going gay is okay, then the fact that other people of his same religion disagree with him shouldn't be an issue. I'm no heavily religious man, but that's my view on the matter.

[G-Flex]

Religion isn't a necessary condition for homophobia, either, and I doubt it's even really at the core of it for a lot of people. I think it has more to do with homosexuality subverting traditional gender roles. If you can't assume "boys like girls, and girls like boys", but have done so for a long time, having to admit the possibility that some people swing the other way... shakes things up.

Religion is often used as a justification or an inspiration for things, but there are almost always social reasons beyond "this religious organization/book told me so".


Personally, I wish we lived in a world where we didn't feel such pressure to affix labels to ourselves, and where "coming out" wasn't even necessary. Oh well.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Ah, but there's the crux of the argument, because this seems to just be a difference in perspectives: is a religion made by God, or the people? A person with faith in God would believe that going gay is okay, then the fact that other people of his same religion disagree with him shouldn't be an issue.

There have been several thousand religions founded and more often than not destroyed over the course of human history (and that's just the ones we know of), so any God would have had to be quite busy indeed. There are also plenty of gay people who retain their faith and end up viewing themselveds as evil and horrible people for being gay. You know how there are gay people, especially teenagers, who kill themselves over their being gay? That's why.

[Grakelin]

If you think we're upset with you for being an arch-conservative heretic, why would you think we'd be upset with you for being gay?

[Heliman]

Ah, but there's the crux of the argument, because this seems to just be a difference in perspectives: is a religion made by God, or the people? A person with faith in God would believe that going gay is okay, then the fact that other people of his same religion disagree with him shouldn't be an issue.

There have been several thousand religions founded and more often than not destroyed over the course of human history (and that's just the ones we know of), so any God would have had to be quite busy indeed. There are also plenty of gay people who retain their faith and end up viewing themselveds as evil and horrible people for being gay. You know how there are gay people, especially teenagers, who kill themselves over their being gay? That's why.

I... don't see how that contradicts my argument?