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[quinnr]

Source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57235.html

Spoiler: For lazy people (click to show/hide)

House Republicans are asking President Barack Obama to hold off on allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military, saying it would be “premature” to do so now.

The letter from 29 lawmakers delivered Friday to the White House comes as legislative efforts have fizzled to block or stall implementation of the repeal of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy that prevented gays and lesbians from serving openly.

The repeal, enacted in December, requires Obama, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen to certify that the military is ready for the change, triggering a 60-day waiting period. Gates has indicated that he would do so before leaving office at the end of this month if Mullen and the other joint chiefs tell him they’re ready.

The military already is moving toward completing the process of training troops for the change. And Obama — who considers the repeal one of his signature achievements — is unlikely to stand in the way, meaning the repeal would take effect in September.

“Such a dramatic policy change should be taken cautiously, even more so now while we currently have American troops in harm’s way in Iraq and Afghanistan,” the lawmakers wrote.

The letter was circulated by Rep. Duncan Hunter of California, who sponsored one of three restrictions on the repeal included in the annual defense authorization bill that passed the House on May 26. But Hunter’s amendment, which would add the four service chiefs to those required to sign off on the change, would become moot once Obama certifies the military is ready.

And senators have shown no appetite for revisiting the issue. The Senate Armed Services Committee’s version of the defense policy measure, approved late Thursday, includes no restrictions on implementing the repeal, and senators are unlikely to accept the House-passed language.

“There was no effort to do what the House had done,” Armed Services Committee Chairman Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) said.

tl;dr: Bunch of lawmakers wrote a letter asking to delay the signing of the repeal of DADT (which states that the military is 'ready' and won't be affected by it negatively) which has to be signed 60 days before it takes effect.

Really, this thing just needs to be done with. It's funny though, only the Republicans seem to be against it. The US is so polarized to these two parties that it seems that nothing will ever be done, because nobody is ever willing to make a compromise.

[Truean]

Unit Moral and Military:

Absolutely every damn thing divides people in the military; then you get over it and worry about staying alive. Or you don't and that goes to both things....

Americans have a deep seated problem with gay people; don't know why, don't care, it's stupid and sad, but true.

Being gay isn't wrong, gay marriage doesn't change anything; if it did, Canada would've burned to the ground, snow and all, long ago.

In the military, you should grow up and gun up. Nothing should distract you from your job and if it does then that's your problem.

[Felius]

The more I see it from the outside, the more I find that the best way for any party to get anything done would be to rabidly defend the exact opposite of what you'd actually want, at least until voting time.

[Max White]

Your entire country has some deep seeded issue with something. No really, what the hell guys?

[mainiac]

Really, this thing just needs to be done with. It's funny though, only the Republicans seem to be against it. The US is so polarized to these two parties that it seems that nothing will ever be done, because nobody is ever willing to make a compromise.

Correction, the republicans are never willing to make a compromise because that would be letting Obama win.  The democrats bend over backwards to make compromise time and time again and get their faces spat in.  If the democrats weren't interested in compromise they could have just rammed this thing through in 2009 instead of pussy footing around.  Hell Obama's signature legislative achievement, the healthcare bill, is nearly identical to the 1994 proposal by Bob Dole.

Maybe if people stopped blaming both sides for republican refusal to compromise the republicans would stop acting this way.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Americans have a deep seated problem with gay people; don't know why, don't care, it's stupid and sad, but true.

Spoiler: That isn't true. (click to show/hide)

Some Americans have a deep seated problem with gay people, and they are the minority now. Hell, given how most of the world acts towards gay people, the USA would still be at the higher end of acceptance even if that were true. Try being openly gay in parts of the Middle East that aren't Israel or parts of Africa that aren't South Africa. See how long you stay alive, much less accepted.

[Felius]

Americans have a deep seated problem with gay people; don't know why, don't care, it's stupid and sad, but true.

Spoiler: That isn't true. (click to show/hide)

Some Americans have a deep seated problem with gay people, and they are the minority now. Hell, given how most of the world acts towards gay people, the USA would still be at the higher end of acceptance even if that were true. Try being openly gay in parts of the Middle East that aren't Israel or parts of Africa that aren't South Africa. See how long you stay alive, much less accepted.

It's still a very big minority. Plus, even there being places much worse than the US, acceptance wise, it does not mean the US situation is good.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It's still a very big minority. Plus, even there being places much worse than the US, acceptance wise, it does not mean the US situation is good.

And it's still a very small majority. Do you know what I call a very small majority, when it comes to politics? "Enough to change."

[Tilla]

The more I see it from the outside, the more I find that the best way for any party to get anything done would be to rabidly defend the exact opposite of what you'd actually want, at least until voting time.

Yah basically this.

[G-Flex]

Americans have a deep seated problem with gay people; don't know why, don't care, it's stupid and sad, but true.

Spoiler: That isn't true. (click to show/hide)

Some Americans have a deep seated problem with gay people, and they are the minority now. Hell, given how most of the world acts towards gay people, the USA would still be at the higher end of acceptance even if that were true. Try being openly gay in parts of the Middle East that aren't Israel or parts of Africa that aren't South Africa. See how long you stay alive, much less accepted.

Take a look at your own poll results. Only recently have the numbers for agreement with gay marriage gone up past 50%. That's still really bad. If you were to further isolate, say, everybody over 30, the results would probably be even worse.

American society does, in fact, have deep-rooted problems with homosexuality. That's why we used to have so many anti-sodomy laws on the books, and why it took until the 2000s for the US Supreme Court to actually shoot them down. It's also why the Defense of Marriage Act was passed. It's also why almost the entire anglophone world except us (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_homosexuality_laws.svg) has legalized/recognized the validity of same-sex marriages or unions. Things are getting better, yes, and there are worse places, but we're still one of the worst when it comes to the English-speaking (or, really, Western) world, and to say we don't have some pretty bad problems is naive.

There's also the fact that the US, being the US, has a lot of variety between states. Try asking that question in, say, Alabama or Kansas.

Also, here's something from 2009: http://www.gallup.com/poll/118378/majority-americans-continue-oppose-gay-marriage.aspx
Note how godawfully split the opinion is between liberals and conservatives. That is not good. Even 23% of "liberals" in 2009 didn't support even the recognition of same-sex marriages, and a whopping 80% of conservatives (a pretty big supermajority) felt the same.

Oh, and only 13% of those responding thought that allowing same-sex marriage would change society for the better, compared to 48% who thought it would change for the worse.


It's easy to say that a small majority is "enough for change", but keep in mind that power players in politics, lobbying, etc., still exist. There's a reason Prop 8 in California was passed, and why it's so damned hard even in fairly liberal states to get pro-gay-marriage legislation through. The situation is improving, but it isn't easy.

[Aqizzar]

There's one extra quote that needs to be added to the discussion of "Don't Ask Don't Tell" repeal, especially in regards to the Marines supposedly having far and away the highest "issues" with the change (up to and including Commandant James Amos).  Sergeant Major Micheal Barrett, the real life version of the Master Chief and the top non-commissioned Marine, had this to say about the repeal to a crowd of soldiers: "Get over it."

There was Sgt. Maj. Barrett on Marines who fail to meet height and weight standards (“get out and pound pavement!”); on the new automatic rifle the service is issuing (“an amazing weapon”); and of course on the war in Afghanistan (“we are kicking the shit out of the insurgency”).
...

“We’re magnificent, we’re going to continue to be. … Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines.”

[Leafsnail]

Wait, MetalSlimeHunt... are you saying that the fact that 36% of adults think that gay relations should be illegal, even if they're in private, is evidence of progressive attitudes towards homosexuals?

[freeformschooler]

Wait, MetalSlimeHunt... are you saying that the fact that 36% of adults think that gay relations should be illegal, even if they're in private, is evidence of progressive attitudes towards homosexuals?

Sounds about right to me.

[Strife26]

Wait, MetalSlimeHunt... are you saying that the fact that 36% of adults think that gay relations should be illegal, even if they're in private, is evidence of progressive attitudes towards homosexuals?

Sounds about right to me.

Better than a helluva lot of the world, current location included.

I believe that the Army's current stance is pretty much right and have attended my required DADT-R classes.

[G-Flex]

Wait, MetalSlimeHunt... are you saying that the fact that 36% of adults think that gay relations should be illegal, even if they're in private, is evidence of progressive attitudes towards homosexuals?

Sounds about right to me.

It sure doesn't. Over a third of the country thinking your sexual orientation is an abomination enough to be made illegal is not indicative of a "progressive" attitude. The US is not progressive at all by Western standards when it comes to homosexual rights. That's just a fact. Our policy and our social attitudes are lagging behind Western Europe, Canada, and Australia, to name a few. Yes, they're better than a lot of other places. That does not make us "progressive".

Wait, MetalSlimeHunt... are you saying that the fact that 36% of adults think that gay relations should be illegal, even if they're in private, is evidence of progressive attitudes towards homosexuals?

Sounds about right to me.

Better than a helluva lot of the world, current location included.

I believe that the Army's current stance is pretty much right and have attended my required DADT-R classes.

Which current stance? DADT, or its being unnecessary?