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[Dariush]

Dariush: Was this a random vote?

Back then, yes. His next overdefensive post changed that.

Dariush, did we ever work out whether your vote on Toony was an RVS or not?

Yes, we did. Why don't you stop lurking and instead read the thread? And how about any explanation beyond your vote?

Dariush:  You mean this one?

I got confused by the post titles. I need more sleep.

Dariush:  What is your scum list now that your top two picks have flipped town?

IronyOwl for lurking which is unlike him, Jokerman for lurking which is like him and Max White for buddying, but he seems sufficiently pressured to allow me to observe his reactions and determine which questions need to be asked.

All questioning coming after everyone comes and says something.

[Toaster]

Dariush:

IronyOwl for lurking which is unlike him, Jokerman for lurking which is like him and Max White for buddying, but he seems sufficiently pressured to allow me to observe his reactions and determine which questions need to be asked.

This scumlist is lazy.  What is the difference in scumminess between in-meta lurking and not-in-meta lurking?

All questioning coming after everyone comes and says something.

This is also lazy.  Why not question now?  What do you gain from waiting to question that you couldn't by just questioning current non-posters after they post?  Why not question them on D1 material?

[Jim Groovester]

Well, I'm most likely going to be lynched, I have seen how these things go. Somebody said to claim if you were a kook, but nobody said anything for any other role, so are there roles that should reveal themselves now, especially if they are about to die?

Well, if you're not going to fight it, then I have no reason to reconsider.

[IronyOwl]

Max: Why did you need a side? Why did you need a side on that issue but no others? How exactly does one decide between two sides when it's impossible and foolhardy to assume either is town?

What would doing nothing achieve? Shouldn't I try to involve myself?

So you consider "involving yourself" and "picking one side or the other" synonymous? Can't have your own opinion or stance on something, have to choose one of the people involved and ally with them for a while? That's not scummy at all.

It's also nice to know that, since that seems to be the only time you "took sides," that was the only time you were actually playing the game. Any thoughts on that?

Dariush, did we ever work out whether your vote on Toony was an RVS or not?

Yes, we did. Why don't you stop lurking and instead read the thread? And how about any explanation beyond your vote?

Eh, I remembered some weirdness with you and whether or not it was an RV, which now appears to not exist. Must have been thinking of a different person and/or game.

Nonetheless, I don't like how you voted Toony for an RV, then didn't really bother to question him. Do you have any non-lurking suspects at all? You know, suspects that are actually scummy as opposed to just absent? Shouldn't you be scumhunting to get or improve some either way?

[Vector]

As other people have pointed out, Max White, that question is blatant role-fishing.

I need to do a game re-read on my targets--it'll have to wait for a couple of hours, though.  Back in a while.

[lordnincompoop]

Ahahaha. I really hate doing this, but it's 2AM and I inadvertently lost all my time having a good day and an unusually interesting argument in a MafiaScum thread.

I'll have something tomorrow, I promise.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Jim: Who are your other suspects? I've seen you attack Max since the beginning, and it's going to be reeeeal interesting if Max is lynched, and turns out to be town - when you haven't really fielded any other suspects.

It almost feels like you're just pounding the noobie because he can't stand up to you. Yes, the things you're pointing out are there. But surely someone else catches your eye.

Vector: I'm interested to hear your suspects when you get back.

IronyOwl: Other than pouncing on the Max White bandwagon, let's hear your list of suspicions. You're attacking Dariush about his lack of suspicions, and yet I haven't really seen much from you.

Dariush: It's true, though; you aren't really pushing anyone. You're very defensive, haven't attacked anyone,...who are your suspects?

[Jim Groovester]

Jim: Who are your other suspects? I've seen you attack Max since the beginning, and it's going to be reeeeal interesting if Max is lynched, and turns out to be town - when you haven't really fielded any other suspects.

It almost feels like you're just pounding the noobie because he can't stand up to you. Yes, the things you're pointing out are there. But surely someone else catches your eye.

Right, so let me get this straight.

I've got good reason to go after Max White. But that makes me scummy, but only if he flips town.

Why, it's like your prepping yourself for a nice Day 3 argument against me.

I'm not swimming in strong leads, but Dariush has caught my eye for regurgitating the suspect lists of everybody else in the game, and also lurking like a motherfucker, just like he said he would.

And you, because you're not voting anyone, ever. You're not taking stake in how the day game plays out, so let's think about what that says about you for a second, and what alternatives there are for you if you're really as disinterested in lynching as you look.

[Max White]

Okay.

Then you can be lynched for it.

Keep being flippant in the face of people's concerns while at the same time failing to address them. That's going to work out well for you.

You lynch people for trying to explain themselves? I lynch people for being scum.

Nope, that wasn't really MASSIVE CHAINSAWING. It was really all about you. Pandarsenic demanding you vote for him had nothing to do with ToonyMan, and that's the way it looked at the time.

So, again, how did you reach that conclusion? Asking "How did you not?" is not an answer.

See above. Max White, your reasons for voting Toony (and unvoting and then voting for him again...) are unconvincing. Do you ACTUALLY believe he's scum? I don't believe you believe that.

When I vote for Toony, he retaliates, with really abstract reasoning too. No really, he didn't believe I really, really feel strongly about my vote? That is the weakest reasoning I have ever seen that somebody has taken seriously.
He even went so far as to say that the votes on Toony were just a bandwagon

Lots of people have also bandwagon'd ONTO Toony.

He wanted to protect Toony, thinking that they were working together isn't unreasonable.

It also smells a lot like rolefishing.

As other people have pointed out, Max White, that question is blatant role-fishing.

Very well.

[Max White]

Wait, screwed that post up in trimming, ignore it while I fix it up.

Okay.

Then you can be lynched for it.

Keep being flippant in the face of people's concerns while at the same time failing to address them. That's going to work out well for you.

You lynch people for trying to explain themselves? I lynch people for being scum.

Nope, that wasn't really MASSIVE CHAINSAWING. It was really all about you. Pandarsenic demanding you vote for him had nothing to do with ToonyMan, and that's the way it looked at the time.

So, again, how did you reach that conclusion? Asking "How did you not?" is not an answer.

See above. Max White, your reasons for voting Toony (and unvoting and then voting for him again...) are unconvincing. Do you ACTUALLY believe he's scum? I don't believe you believe that.

When I vote for Toony, he retaliates, with really abstract reasoning too. No really, he didn't believe I really, really feel strongly about my vote? That is the weakest reasoning I have ever seen that somebody has taken seriously.
He even went so far as to say that the votes on Toony were just a bandwagon

Lots of people have also bandwagon'd ONTO Toony.

He wanted to protect Toony, thinking that they were working together isn't unreasonable.

It also smells a lot like rolefishing.

As other people have pointed out, Max White, that question is blatant role-fishing.

Very well.

Well, if you're not going to fight it, then I have no reason to reconsider.

I intend to fight, but I don't think I will win. I ask if it would be appropriate to share any info, and you accuse me of role fishing. From here on any attempt to defend myself is no longer a townie explaining them self, but a scum mincing words to you.

[IronyOwl]

IronyOwl: Other than pouncing on the Max White bandwagon, let's hear your list of suspicions. You're attacking Dariush about his lack of suspicions, and yet I haven't really seen much from you.

Admittedly, I haven't really got anything except Dariush yet.


Max: No response to me? I hope it's not because I'm not voting you right this second.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Jim: Who are your other suspects? I've seen you attack Max since the beginning, and it's going to be reeeeal interesting if Max is lynched, and turns out to be town - when you haven't really fielded any other suspects.

It almost feels like you're just pounding the noobie because he can't stand up to you. Yes, the things you're pointing out are there. But surely someone else catches your eye.

Right, so let me get this straight.

I've got good reason to go after Max White. But that makes me scummy, but only if he flips town.

Why, it's like your prepping yourself for a nice Day 3 argument against me.

I'm not swimming in strong leads, but Dariush has caught my eye for regurgitating the suspect lists of everybody else in the game, and also lurking like a motherfucker, just like he said he would.

And you, because you're not voting anyone, ever. You're not taking stake in how the day game plays out, so let's think about what that says about you for a second, and what alternatives there are for you if you're really as disinterested in lynching as you look.

I didn't say it made you look scummy - go ahead and check. It's interesting that you react that way, though. What I was saying was that you've spent all of D2 and the vast majority of D1 on attacking Max, and if he flips town then who are you going to have? What suspicions will you push?

In fact, I would go so far as you say you're tunneling Max pretty heavily. I think it only counts as scumhunting if you're looking at everyone; attacking one person over and over again isn't real hunting.

Yes, I'm aware of how I look to you. Got a problem with it? Throw your vote at me. I, on the other hand, hold on to mine until I find a place to put it and a reason as to why.

[Max White]

Max: No response to me? I hope it's not because I'm not voting you right this second.

What? Oh, right, sorry, here we are.

So you consider "involving yourself" and "picking one side or the other" synonymous? Can't have your own opinion or stance on something, have to choose one of the people involved and ally with them for a while? That's not scummy at all.

So I am allied with Jim? Isn't that putting words into my mouth?
I chose my side to attack, but I will reiterate, that doesn't mean I'm putting my trust in Jim. I pushed Toony for myself, questioning him on what I could, rather than ally.

It's also nice to know that, since that seems to be the only time you "took sides," that was the only time you were actually playing the game. Any thoughts on that?

I err what? So your trying to say that lynching Toony is the only thing I have done so far, correct?
Well I would be interested in what makes you say that.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
Dariush: IronyOwl
Jokerman-EXE: Toaster
Max White: Jim Groovester, Think0028


Day ends ~10am Pacific Friday

[Think0028]

Max: It's one thing to share info, it's another to beg for it. Why those three in particular? Why painting yourself like a martyr? Are you going to do anything aside from defend yourself?

Jokerman-EXE: Why the cool and aloof demeanor? For such careful observation, four variations on 'Who are your suspects' don't seem like very insightful questions. Why are you staying away from the lynches?