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[Max White]

The first time was because I'm not clear on what he means by the 'Too Townie' argument. Perhaps you could clarify vector?
The second two because I don't know what posts he is talking about. At least I go to the effort of finding quotes to support my claims, is it too much to ask the same of others? If somebody doesn't provide evidence for what they say, surly I should just dismiss what they say all together, rather then being so kind as to figure out what the hell they mean...

Also, I'm doing a lot of answering, and not much hunting. Perhaps I should begin to address that, don't want to get distracted from what I should be doing after all.
IronyOwl: You seem to be avoiding conflict so far. What is your opinion of Think?

[Think0028]

Lots of people have also bandwagon'd ONTO Toony. Is this suspicious to you?

If every time somebody placed a vote on somebody that already had a vote, we called bandwagon, we wouldn't get very far. Sometimes a man gotta vote where a man gotta vote, or something similar but more feminine for Vector. I'm not going to start questioning myself about my vote, that honer goes to everybody else in the game  , but as for think and he's vote.

ToonyMan, I want some justification as to why this is even evidence. How does this response prove he is scum? Why is this supposedly different from what Town Jim would do? How do you even know what Jim is thinking?

Demanding evidence for an opinion is hardly a bandwagon. Evidence we still aren't nearly close to hearing.

Here, you ignore the question of whether more people hopping on Toony is suspicious or not, and answer it with an vague statement about your vote and bring up my vote as a justification for what you're doing. You never address the issue of what you think about the other people.

So your not worried about me being suspecting of toony, your worred of me not suspecting toony, and expressing this by voting toony. What is this I don't even... You know I'm just going to not give a damn, lest I get drunk from the wine.

And this post, where you not-so-subtly accuse Pandar of WIFOM, even though he laid out his suspicion of you in the previous post and why he was suspicious of you.

I had assumed you'd be able to recall discussions you were involved in by description, but apparently not.

[Vector]

The "Too Townie" argument is the argument that someone is playing too much of a town game, and must therefore be scum.

However, I believe that you meant over-explaining is a scumtell.

Like, for example...

Could you show some of these posts I twisted?

What question? Provide a quote, or link, or anything, and I will do my best to respond.

If you make a claim, do your best to provide me with a post or two of what you mean, else how am I meant to know exactly what your talking about?

Where it's basically you saying exactly the same thing three times in a row.  This feels, to me, like when someone uses the words "when I flip town" over and over again in a post.  "I don't have data, officer!  You can't accuse me of anything!  I don't have data!"

[Vector]

Oh, and Dariush has been gone for over 24 hours... a prod would be nice.

[Max White]

Here, you ignore the question of whether more people hopping on Toony is suspicious or not, and answer it with an vague statement about your vote and bring up my vote as a justification for what you're doing. You never address the issue of what you think about the other people.

I assumed what I thought was clear, but I guess not. For that I apologise. Not particularly suspicious, as the 'lots' of people who were bandwagoning were you are I, and to a degree we both had reasons. What I meant was that I didn't think it was really bandwagoning, like Toony had implied.

I had assumed you'd be able to recall discussions you were involved in by description, but apparently not.

Yes, I'm going to know what you mean when you say question I did not answer, despite the fact that I thought I did, and the posts I was twisting, despite the fact that I didn't think I was. I'm totally going to remember what I didn't do.

The "Too Townie" argument is the argument that someone is playing too much of a town game, and must therefore be scum.

Thank you.

This is the Too Townie argument in a different hat.  Since when is explaining your vote scummy or defensive?

I have been over this one with Vector. READ THE THREAD. Since your Jim.

Jim had already outlined he's reasons. I expected Town Jim to not bother why he thought Toony was scum, while scum Jim was more likely to try and give reasons. Had he been a little more defensive and started going over he's reasoning in summery, I would have suspected him.
Because I had a policy of saving my vote, when I did vote Jim thought I was going to start tunnelling him, and that's when your going to see scum Jim most defensive about he's opinion. Although Panda seems to disagree with this, I'm not taking Panda on he's word right now.

And the next two posts should cover it.

[Jim Groovester]

What exactly makes you an authority on my meta, and why would I be town or scum based on some silly meta test you came up with on the spot that isn't really accurate anyway?

You're making me nervous calling me town for that reason (and that reason alone), instead of the usual ones like 'he's hunting' or 'he's active' or 'he's interested in finding scum.'

[Jokerman-EXE]

Jokerman-EXE: Hey buddy, you still breathing? You sort of vanished after a single post. How do you think scumtells for newer players differ from the old hands?

Yeah, I'm here; I didn't actually mean to be gone this long, but I wound up getting called into work yesterday and today, and I desperately need hours as I'm now living on my own, so I don't really get to say no.

I think that scumtells are scumtells one way or the other. The way that you can distinguish them is that more experienced players are better at playing them off. It's not the scumtells that ultimately give scum away; it's the way that the scumtells are noticed, and the person explains their way out of it.

Jokerman-EXE: What the hell? Where are you, and what have you been doing? Provide us with an exhaustive list of your suspicions in full and supply reasoning as well as citations for each.

No offense, but uh...don't tell me what to do again. Phrasing it as a question instead of an order is the line between pissing me the fuck off and involving me in the game.

Let's see. Max White is drawing a lot of attention and as far as I can tell, he's doing very well for such a new player. This makes me feel like he might be scum and has an experienced player coaching him in how to react. I'm hesitant to believe he might just be a skilled player; it's more likely that he has a partner of some kind. Toaster has pointed out issues in Max's case without pushing him or claiming to be suspicious, which is interesting but not necessarily scummy. Jim and Toony have been going back and forth, as per the usual, and I don't feel strong scum vibes from either of them. Vector and Pandar haven't really posted enough to form a solid read (Pandar less so than Vector), but from what I've seen both are approaching from a standpoint of "this is what I've noticed that's not right," which is solid for scumhunting but not all that great when it comes to drawing a read. Think is attacking Max pretty hard, but the point at which he entered the argument makes me feel more like it's an attempt to scumhunt and more of a bandwagon than anything else. IronyOwl and Dariush...haven't heard too much yet.

tl;dr Max White is my top pick thus far, though it's a very close lead over Think. Overall I'm just watching the arguments go back and forth for now, so maybe something else will stand out as time goes.

Jokerman-EXE: If you end up getting lynched for not being active and were a townie, I'm going to be just a little annoyed. If you were a Tough Doppelganger, would you take the effort to remove anybody with tec that could kill you, or lay low and hope for the best?

I would remove them. "Hoping for the best" is a strategy that makes you lose at this game.

[ToonyMan]

Overall I'm just watching the arguments go back and forth for now, so maybe something else will stand out as time goes.

Sideline-scum.  Start up your own argument when you get the chance will you?

[Max White]

tl;dr Max White is my top pick thus far, though it's a very close lead over Think. Overall I'm just watching the arguments go back and forth for now, so maybe something else will stand out as time goes.

Wait, you think I'm doing well. Thank you!  Anyway, good to see you back, I do not want Jim going policy happy and destroying the town because of it.
And yea, I totally have a coach, two in fact. Jim and Vector, over in the beginners thread.

[Pandarsenic]

Pandar:

So your not worried about me being suspecting of toony, your worred of me not suspecting toony, and expressing this by voting toony. What is this I don't even... You know I'm just going to not give a damn, lest I get drunk from the wine.

Voting someone you don't really think is scum is not a town thing to do. And if you're scum, you'll very rarely REALLY believe the person you're voting is scum, after all...

Is this directed at Max, Jim, or both?

Directed originally at Max. Relevant to both at the time, though.

Now there is something interesting here.

Voting someone you don't really think is scum is not a town thing to do. And if you're scum, you'll very rarely REALLY believe the person you're voting is scum, after all...

Saying somebody doesn't believe their own vote is a some what sketchy thing. You can't really prove it ever, it's just a subjective way to call somebody scum for having an opinion.
Also take note that Pandar is focusing this tactic on me, and not Think. I have something Think does not, that being a RVS vote from somebody who hasn't been very active. Combine Pandas weakly justified vote, with Toony's defensive vote, and together they managed to even the vote tally and save Toonys ass for the mean time.

Did I get that right? We have three each. Can we get a votecount to be sure?

1) I'm going to vote you for your own actions, and I'm not going to spare you my vote because someone is already voting you. That's stupid. You're scum, so I'm voting you.
2) You are so transparently NOT committed to your vote on Toony. You think I'm scum?

VOTE FOR ME FUCKER

DO IT

DO IT BITCH

You don't believe I'm scum. You're attacking me to try to get me off of you. Nice try. Now roll over and flip Dopp already.


And I can't see any reason why anything Max White said about Jim would be valid. This is a combination of that it seems to have no ties to reality and that Max White is obviously scum.

[Max White]

VOTE FOR ME FUCKER

DO IT

DO IT BITCH

You don't believe I'm scum. You're attacking me to try to get me off of you. Nice try. Now roll over and flip Dopp already.


And I can't see any reason why anything Max White said about Jim would be valid. This is a combination of that it seems to have no ties to reality and that Max White is obviously scum.

I'm going to be honest with you Pandar, this made me laugh, out loud, to myself, and the peope around me looked at me like I had lost my marbles. 
No, I'm not going to vote for you. Yet. Unless I think at any point it will become more productive to the town. Fuck you and your lazy efforts, try harder next time.

[Toaster]

Max:

This is the Too Townie argument in a different hat.  Since when is explaining your vote scummy or defensive?

What was the purpose of the vote cycle here and here?

Too Townie argument? Could you clarify on that point?


Also, I will go over this again, for those of you unwilling to read the thread. Unvoting and voting again was not because of anything ingame, but rather real life related. I am currently at my parents place, and wasn't sure if I would have internet, as warned about in the first post you linked to. I even gave a condition for a replace if I couldn't keep playing. I didn't want people bandwagoning on my vote while I couldn't change it, so I removed it. When I found I did have internet access, I put my vote back on. It was just a safeguard in case I couldn't be active.
I even made a note to myself so I would remember what was going on. Hell, I even did the exact same thing in the other game I'm in right now. Are we all clear now as to why I had to unvote and revote?

Too Townie

I don't buy your case on him at all.  One or two games does not give you grand insight into meta.  Do you have anything else on him?

I understand why you said you moved your vote.  I still don't get the purpose.  Why bother removing your vote at all?  It's not like whoever replaced you couldn't move it.

I have been over this one with Vector. READ THE THREAD. Since your Jim.

Jim had already outlined he's reasons. I expected Town Jim to not bother why he thought Toony was scum, while scum Jim was more likely to try and give reasons. Had he been a little more defensive and started going over he's reasoning in summery, I would have suspected him.
Because I had a policy of saving my vote, when I did vote Jim thought I was going to start tunnelling him, and that's when your going to see scum Jim most defensive about he's opinion. Although Panda seems to disagree with this, I'm not taking Panda on he's word right now.

And the next two posts should cover it.

That doesn't really answer the question (and neither do the next two posts.)  And what about my Jim?

Also, I'm doing a lot of answering, and not much hunting. Perhaps I should begin to address that, don't want to get distracted from what I should be doing after all.
IronyOwl: You seem to be avoiding conflict so far. What is your opinion of Think?

"Look at me!  I'm townie, see?"

Also, that is not hunting- that is getting him to talk.  While it's useful, it's not hunting.


Think/Jim:  Fair enough.


Jokerman:

tl;dr Max White is my top pick thus far, though it's a very close lead over Think. Overall I'm just watching the arguments go back and forth for now, so maybe something else will stand out as time goes.

Problem:  You're not voting Max (or anyone.)  If he's your top pick, why aren't you voting him?  If he's not a good enough pick to vote, why aren't you pressing people to find a voteworthy pick?  I smell someone trying to get through D1 without notice.

[Dariush]

It's also worth noting that Dariush and Max White are making votes that just follow Jim's logic, which are bandwagon votes.

What, seriously? Even though I clearly phrased it (and accompanied by an RVS question) as an RVS vote? Why are you so overdefensive?

Hehe, if anything, you're being overly defensive by reacting so strongly to what I said.

You aren't really answering my question...

Dariush: So is your vote still an RV or does it have a purpose now?

Let's see... Twisting my words (my initial vote didn't have anything to do with Jim's logic and he knew it), being overdefensive, avoiding questions, not scumhunting at all... yeah, definitely a purposeful vote.

Yet you never actually say it is an RVS vote.  Is it or isn't it?  If so, do you actually think he is scum?  If not, what is your full case?  In either case, who else do you suspect?

It is, see right above. My scumlist: Pandar for looking like jester, Irony for lurking, Vector for being too focused on me and Max aaand... well, that's pretty much it. There's not enough information for a definitive list.

Dariush, how would you play as a war vet?

I'll openly state I am one and lurk lurk lurk.

Maybe I don't understand what's going on here, but how does "lurk lurk lurk" ever benefit the town?

Those who vote for the claimed PWV first are probably scum who want to get him off his hands. Though that's only my thoughts, since I've never been in a paranormal with PWV.

Vector, in your last posts there was no interaction with any of the people you stated you suspect, except for me and Max, and even him you abandoned after being satisfied by his answer. You even only aknowledged my absence (was kinda busy), yet ignored your other two suspects, Irony and Jokerman, who've been gone for longer. Why so overfocused?

Toony, here you state that your vote on Jim was 'just one statement', implying that either that was an RVS vote or a bullshit one, and in your next post you without any explanation move your vote back to him. Care to explain?

Pandar, I know you like to look like a Jester, but this time it's beyond any reasonable borders. You're not even trying to find scum. What the hell?

[Pandarsenic]

You're right. I'm not trying. I already succeeded.

Poor Maxy didn't make it too hard, though.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
Dariush: Toaster, Vector
Jim Groovester: ToonyMan
Max White: Pandarsenic
Pandarsenic: IronyOwl
ToonyMan: Dariush, Jim Groovester, lordnincompoop, Max White, Think0028


Day ends ~~5pm Pacific Today