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[Montague]

I guess so. Modding in something like an animal-man is very easy to do. Don't need to have Toady do it, since its literally as easy as copy-pasting some other similar animal entry, changing the name, tile and a few variables.

If I wanted mods, I'd mod.  I don't mod.

I'm not asking for a mod, I'm asking for something to be added to the base game.

Yeah, but its sort of an extravagent request. "I want the default population cap to be 100 but I'm not going to modify the .int file myself." Maybe I don't like elephant men in a vanilla game, now I have to mod them out.

[IT 000]

Guys, "Mod the game" isn't exactly an answer to a suggestion in the suggestion forum.

So what your saying is, when you want a hood ornament for your car. You shouldn't do it yourself, you should go the mechanic and demand he do it even though he's busy building an engine.

We have modding for this specific reason, so that we can add all the hood ornaments we like while Toady builds the engine.

He isn't asking for a mechanic to add an ornament to his car.

He is going to the engineers, looking at the blueprint, and going "You know what? I think air conditioning would be great".

Which is why saying "Put an air conditioning unit in it yourself" isn't exactly an answer. Your not saying Yes or No.

Obviously you are not a modder or you would realize how trivially easy it was to mod in. Pretending to be an expert gets you nowhere. Especially when your arguing with one.

Now for the man with actual XP points in modding

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CREATURE:ELEPHANT MAN]
   [DESCRIPTION:A huge, hairless mammal, found grazing in grasslands in groups.  It eats plants which it lifts up with its long trunk.  When angered, it will attack with its long tusks.]
   [NAME:elephant man:elephant men:elephant man]
   [CHILD:10][GENERAL_CHILD_NAME:elephant calf:elephant calves]
   [CREATURE_TILE:'E'][COLOR:7:0:0]
   [PETVALUE:500]
   [PET]
   [GRAZER:12] don't have browsing trees yet
   [MOUNT_EXOTIC]
   [TRAINABLE]
   [LARGE_ROAMING]
   [BIOME:ANY_TROPICAL_FOREST]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
   [POPULATION_NUMBER:15:30]
   [CLUSTER_NUMBER:3:7]
   [BENIGN][MEANDERER][NATURAL]
   [PREFSTRING:strength]
   [BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:TRUNK:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:MOUTH:2TUSKS:GENERIC_TEETH:RIBCAGE]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
      [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:IVORY:TOOTH_TEMPLATE]
         [STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:ivory]
         [STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:ivory]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
      [USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:IVORY:IVORY_TEMPLATE]
         [TISSUE_NAME:ivory:NP]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
   [SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
    [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
      [TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
   [TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
   [LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
   [HAS_NERVES]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
   [BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
   [CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
   [GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
   [GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
   [PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]
   [BODY_SIZE:0:0:500000]
   [BODY_SIZE:2:0:2500000]
   [BODY_SIZE:5:0:5000000]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [MAXAGE:50:70]
   [ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
   [ATTACK:GORE:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:TUSK]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:gore:gores]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
   [DIURNAL]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10066]
   [SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [MUNDANE]
   [CASTE:FEMALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:elephant woman:elephant women:elephant woman]
      [FEMALE]
   [CASTE:MALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:elephant man:elephant men:elephant man]
      [MALE]
   [SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
         [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:GRAY:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
         [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:IRIS_EYE_BROWN:1:IRIS_EYE_GOLD:1:IRIS_EYE_YELLOW:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
   [SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
      [MULTIPLY_VALUE:5]

Didn't even use the template.

[Neonivek]

I am aware of how easy it is to mod. It is just that telling him to mod the game isn't answering his suggestion.

It is sidestepping and is against the entire point of putting a suggestion section.

[Farmerbob]

I guess so. Modding in something like an animal-man is very easy to do. Don't need to have Toady do it, since its literally as easy as copy-pasting some other similar animal entry, changing the name, tile and a few variables.

If I wanted mods, I'd mod.  I don't mod.

I'm not asking for a mod, I'm asking for something to be added to the base game.

Yeah, but its sort of an extravagent request. "I want the default population cap to be 100 but I'm not going to modify the .int file myself." Maybe I don't like elephant men in a vanilla game, now I have to mod them out.

I think Elephant men would make challenging enemies, and would enjoy them working with elves as building destroyers.

Trample, shield bash using trunk-shield, gore with tusks, and then melee with two-handed bludgeoning weapons, dual-wielded, or give them special weapons specifically for their race - elephantine mace.  If they get a solid hit, they knock their opponent dozens of tiles away, smashing them against walls or trees.

Give them copper equipment, which would be ideal for their shield and bludgeoning weapons anyway, and better then elf armor for melee defense.

And if you EVER kill an elephant man they never forget.  A dead elephant man in year 1 means a war until either the elephant man population or the enemy population is gone.

I can see them being very aggressive and warlike.

That's what I'm imagining, and I'd like to see it in the game, not in a mod.

[Montague]

I guess so. Modding in something like an animal-man is very easy to do. Don't need to have Toady do it, since its literally as easy as copy-pasting some other similar animal entry, changing the name, tile and a few variables.

If I wanted mods, I'd mod.  I don't mod.

I'm not asking for a mod, I'm asking for something to be added to the base game.

Yeah, but its sort of an extravagent request. "I want the default population cap to be 100 but I'm not going to modify the .int file myself." Maybe I don't like elephant men in a vanilla game, now I have to mod them out.

I think Elephant men would make challenging enemies, and would enjoy them working with elves as building destroyers.

Trample, shield bash using trunk-shield, gore with tusks, and then melee with two-handed bludgeoning weapons, dual-wielded, or give them special weapons specifically for their race - elephantine mace.  If they get a solid hit, they knock their opponent dozens of tiles away, smashing them against walls or trees.

Give them copper equipment, which would be ideal for their shield and bludgeoning weapons anyway, and better then elf armor for melee defense.

And if you EVER kill an elephant man they never forget.  A dead elephant man in year 1 means a war until either the elephant man population or the enemy population is gone.

I can see them being very aggressive and warlike.

That's what I'm imagining, and I'd like to see it in the game, not in a mod.

See this can't be done with modding without giving them a civ tag or some other thing that alters the way the game plays.

I think there needs to be a simplier way to do that, so Gnomes and animal men have weapons and clothes, at least.

[IT 000]

I am aware of how easy it is to mod. It is just that telling him to mod the game isn't answering his suggestion.

It is sidestepping and is against the entire point of putting a suggestion section.

I am not sidestepping, in fact you never acknowledged any of my arguments about how easy it was to mod. Instead you changed the subject and pulled out the usual 'Why do we have a suggestions section?' card. The suggestions section is for big things, not little details. it's for the air conditioning systems(which are very hard to install btw) not hood ornaments. Now why do we have the modding community?

Honestly Neonivek we're just approaching this from a different perspective. Your buying a car, and you want different windshield wipers. I'm a mechanic and I say 'do it yourself'. We'll never see eye to eye because we both have different experiences. And at the end of the day you'll never convince me that Toady should be focusing on windshield wipers instead of building the engine. Nor will I be able to convince you that it would save time and money to do it yourself. So instead of allowing this to devolve into a flame war, I'm going to get a sandwich and watch five elephant men take out thirty dwarves while you wait for Toady to release .26 fair?

[Neonivek]

in fact you never acknowledged any of my arguments about how easy it was to mod

It is a red herring for the most part and has nothing to do with what I am trying to argue. In fact it works against you since if it is easy to mod then it is easy to add.

at the end of the day you'll never convince me that Toady should be focusing on windshield wipers instead of building the engine

Now here we go. Finally a statement on the suggestion itself.

So your oppinion is: Elephantmen are too unimportant for Toady to work on.

There. That is all you needed to say for it to be clear. Since "Mod the game" can be taken as a "no" or a "N/A" when said on its own.

So instead of allowing this to devolve into a flame war, I'm going to get a sandwich and watch five elephant men take out thirty dwarves while you wait for Toady to release .26 fair?

No... it has nothing to do with that.

-------

Anyhow I'd like to see the rest of the animals registered under "Animalmen" just for completion sake. When I found out that "Animalmen" cannot actually take any animal and that it needs to actually be built on a per animal basis... I was surprised.

[Farmerbob]

I am aware of how easy it is to mod. It is just that telling him to mod the game isn't answering his suggestion.

It is sidestepping and is against the entire point of putting a suggestion section.

I am not sidestepping, in fact you never acknowledged any of my arguments about how easy it was to mod. Instead you changed the subject and pulled out the usual 'Why do we have a suggestions section?' card. The suggestions section is for big things, not little details. it's for the air conditioning systems(which are very hard to install btw) not hood ornaments. Now why do we have the modding community?

Honestly Neonivek we're just approaching this from a different perspective. Your buying a car, and you want different windshield wipers. I'm a mechanic and I say 'do it yourself'. We'll never see eye to eye because we both have different experiences. And at the end of the day you'll never convince me that Toady should be focusing on windshield wipers instead of building the engine. Nor will I be able to convince you that it would save time and money to do it yourself. So instead of allowing this to devolve into a flame war, I'm going to get a sandwich and watch five elephant men take out thirty dwarves while you wait for Toady to release .26 fair?

We're certainly approaching this from a different perspective.  I want elephant men to be an integral part of the game, from world gen to my fortresses.  You want them to be some Frankenstein addition to the game.  While some people truly enjoy being Dr. Frankenstein with their games, I do not.

I do not even use tile sets - by choice.

For community games I'll put up with whatever comes my way (I do avoid heavily modded games, but some minor mods might be OK if the story looks good), but I prefer the vanilla game, and never start a non-vanilla fort for my own use.

[IT 000]

We're certainly approaching this from a different perspective.  I want elephant men to be an integral part of the game, from world gen to my fortresses.

They will be treated as any other creature will be treated from world-gen to fortress.

I do not even use tile sets - by choice.

I feel for you, it took me 7 releases to finally convince myself to make a tileset for Corrosion. Because I didn't want a tileset. Even then, I usually play with the ASCII graphics unless I'm showcasing the game.

[Lav]

I vote for Giant Elephants.

Because vanilla Elephants are just too small.

[MiniMacker]

I vote for Giant Elephants.

Because vanilla Elephants are just too small.

Add [PRONE_TO_RAGE:1] and you've got a deal, good gentleman.

[tHe_silent_H]

I vote for Giant Elephants.

Because vanilla Elephants are just too small.

I vote for giant giants, cus one tile containing 50 of them means that they are way to small