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[Max White]

The prisons would be nearly empty if we just ended the war on drugs and legalized said drugs. That's a big part of crime in the USA. If recreational drug use isn't a crime, drug users don't end up in prison. Gangs don't make profits and collapse, taking their crime out of the system as well.

From there, we can focus more effectively on those that are left in the now undercrowded prisons. But that would be smart, and we know how much Congress hates smart things.

Well my stance on the rec drugs is that we only still have alcohol and tobacco legal because politicians are hypocritical old men who like to drink and smoke, but for arbitrary reasons don't like something like marijuana. If your going to decide what is legal or illegal, at least be fair about it, so yea, make recreational drugs legal.
To a limit, marijuana, ok fine, it isn't even possible to OD on it. Ecstasy? Ban that shit, people have been known to die from a single pill. Go on US, free up the legal system a little and give people some personal freedom.

[anzki4]

To a limit, marijuana, ok fine, it isn't even possible to OD on it. Ecstasy? Ban that shit, people have been known to die from a single pill. Go on US, free up the legal system a little and give people some personal freedom.

You can kill yourself with alcohol and tobacco too...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Prisoners do have it too good.

You think being locked up with a bunch of potentially dangerous people is good? To have no freedom? Even in maximum security prisons, it's the equivalent of being under your parent's thumb again, but instead of your parents it's the government.

They get huge benefeits, three square meals a day, special activity programs, et cetera.

I know of no such benefits, food is a human right, the activity programs are part of trying to rehabilitate them.

Prison is supposed to be undesirable to go to. That so much money is being spent to make the prisoners comfortable is counterproductive, costing more money per prisoner and reducing the deterrent effect, bringing more in.

The issue is that we have too many prisoners, not that prison is counterproductive.

Now, if we put the prisoners to work, it would go a long ways to recoup the costs, as well as letting them acquire some practical skills. But of course, that would be inhumane.

We do put prisoners to work, just not against their will. We call that slavery.

If this guy genuinely needed the healthcare and was not doing it just to be lazy, I have some sympathy for him.

No one is that determined to not work. Healthcare in the US will cost you an arm and a leg if you aren't wealthy.

However, jacking up taxes to pay for universal healthcare would mean he has less money on hand for other things, like food or a roof over his head.

We don't have to jack up taxes. We could just take away a small portion of the hundreds of billions of dollars the Department of Defence is bloated with and use that to pay for universal healthcare. Even if we did raise taxes for it, those taxes would be far more on the rich than a poor man like the one in this story.

Sorry if it is harsh, but we can't all have it easy.

We can, however, have it viable. You know how people are always going on about death panels? Well, guess what, death panels exist. But they aren't agents of the Federal Government, they're employees at health insurance compaines.

Prison must never be a free ride.

It is not, nor has it ever been, a free ride. You pay with your freedom and security.

Well my stance on the rec drugs is that we only still have alcohol and tobacco legal because politicians are hypocritical old men who like to drink and smoke, but for arbitrary reasons don't like something like marijuana.

Ring a ding ding, give this man a cigar.

To a limit, marijuana, ok fine, it isn't even possible to OD on it. Ecstasy? Ban that shit, people have been known to die from a single pill. Go on US, free up the legal system a little and give people some personal freedom.

People die from Ecstasy because they're idiots who don't know that it dehydrates you. As such, they don't drink any water and die. That's the risk they take in using it, and the consequences are on their head. People can die from a single night of drinking alcohol too, but they're also idiots for overdoing it. Hell, people regularly OD on cough syrup, but we don't ban that. The only thing I'd keep illegal is PCP, due to the potential of utter murderous insanity from it.

[Glowcat]

Well my stance on the rec drugs is that we only still have alcohol and tobacco legal because politicians are hypocritical old men who like to drink and smoke, but for arbitrary reasons don't like something like marijuana. If your going to decide what is legal or illegal, at least be fair about it, so yea, make recreational drugs legal.

Arbitrary?! How dare you call marijuana laws arbitrary! Marijuana is obviously more dangerous than tobacco or alcohol because only hippies and other liberal sorts use it! Only stupid college kids and other people I can ignore, like elitist professors, support legalizing marijuana.

/crazy rationalization

[Max White]

You can kill yourself with alcohol and tobacco too...

Yea I know, thus why I can not figure out why some potentially lethal drugs like alcohol are legal and others that you can't OD on like marijuana are illegal, beyond personal taste from what they would call in the 60's, 'da man'.

Ring a ding ding, give this man a cigar.

No thanks, I try to avoid tobacco, and other drugs of that nature, although I would prefer if it was because I chose not to rather than because somebody else decided it wasn't right for me. Tea, on the other hand... *Drool*

[Realmfighter]

People die from Ecstasy because they're idiots who don't know that it dehydrates you. As such, they don't drink any water and die. That's the risk they take in using it, and the consequences are on their head. People can die from a single night of drinking alcohol too, but they're also idiots for overdoing it. Hell, people regularly OD on cough syrup, but we don't ban that. The only thing I'd keep illegal is PCP, due to the potential of utter murderous insanity from it.

Hell, solving the problem of people not knowing something about PCP could be solved by simply requiring the packaging to scream "HEY YOU. THIS SHIT DEHYDRATES YOU. DRINK SOME WATER YA IDIOT". At that point I would suspect people who die from PCP would be the same general kind of person who dies from alcohol, and by that point you just gotta accept that solving actual Ignorance is a lot easier then solving Willful Ignorance.

[The Merchant Of Menace]

Yeah, but IIRC XTC causes your body to fail to recognise the water, so you continue to drink and eventually cause cell and organ failure.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

For the record, Ecstacy/XTC/MDMA is also in trials for use as a therapeutic drug, as it apparently makes the formation of emotional connections easier and as such helps therapists to treat patients using it (going from memory there). So legalizing it isn't just for recreational usage.

[Max White]

For the record, Ecstacy/XTC/MDMA is also in trials for use as a therapeutic drug, as it apparently makes the formation of emotional connections easier and as such helps therapists to treat patients using it (going from memory there). So legalizing it isn't just for recreational usage.

That is interesting news. Do you happen to have a good article, or should I break out the google-fu?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

For the record, Ecstacy/XTC/MDMA is also in trials for use as a therapeutic drug, as it apparently makes the formation of emotional connections easier and as such helps therapists to treat patients using it (going from memory there). So legalizing it isn't just for recreational usage.

That is interesting news. Do you happen to have a good article, or should I break out the google-fu?

My google-fu has found only Wikipedia.

EDIT: Wow, I really should have read that first article.

[Max White]

That reminds me...

This has potential long-term mental health consequences including severe depression, impaired memory and cognitive function, and increased tendency to violent behaviour.

Taking the long term side effects into account, should we be recommending this to people in therapy? Then again, IIRC ecstasy is not chemically addictive (Although like all things in life you can get addicted, that is an emotional response, not a chemical one), so if it was for a more short term period I can see the benefits.

On that note, were rec drugs legalised, and taxed in a similar manner to alcohol and tobacco, then the US government could stand to make some money, and maybe afford some god damn health care for you guys! BAM! Back on topic!

EDIT: Typo.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That reminds me...

This has potential long-term mental health consequences including severe depression, impaired memory and cognitive function, and increased tendency to violent behaviour.

Taking the long term side effects into account, she we be recommending this to people in therapy? Then again, IIRC ecstasy is not chemically addictive (Although like all things in life you can get addicted, that is an emotional response, not a chemical one), so if it was for a more short term period I can see the benefits.

Upon closer inspection, I think I posted that first article somewhat hastily. I was in a bit of a hurry to respond and only skimmed it, it seems unbalanced upon reading the whole thing.

[Africa]

Even if "ultramax" isn't a real level, I have to wonder what the hell is so bad that that supermax just isn't good enough? Do they think they're some kind of uber-Hannibal Lecter, where if you even step outside the cell for one minute you'll McGyver some air molecules into a laser gun and slaughter your way to freedom?

For that matter, I have a hard time seeing why anything more than regular Maximum would be needed. Particularly given the expense to taxpayers.

[freeformschooler]

Even if "ultramax" isn't a real level, I have to wonder what the hell is so bad that that supermax just isn't good enough? Do they think they're some kind of uber-Hannibal Lecter, where if you even step outside the cell for one minute you'll McGyver some air molecules into a laser gun and slaughter your way to freedom?

Two words: Jason Bourne.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Even if "ultramax" isn't a real level, I have to wonder what the hell is so bad that that supermax just isn't good enough? Do they think they're some kind of uber-Hannibal Lecter, where if you even step outside the cell for one minute you'll McGyver some air molecules into a laser gun and slaughter your way to freedom?

The scary part is that some of these people are almost that resourceful. You wouldn't even believe what prisoners have weaponized if I told you. People in that high of a security level have almost nothing to do but hone their fighting and weapon-making abilites for the rest of their life. Some of the most skilled fighters in the world might be locked up in Supermax prisons.

Still better than in other parts of the world, though. I remember hearing about a Brazilian prison where a guard was bribed by a prisoner to smuggle in a grenade.